America

Thoughts on this comment...

If God does not punish America, then He should apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

I don't take the Bible 100% literally. Therefore, the story of S & G is automatically questionable.

My thoughts:

If bad shit comes down for America, it won't be because of an angry Jehovah hurling thunderbolts...in a Biblical sense it'll be along the lines of reaping what you sow, or in an Oriental sense, according the concept of karma...the impartial universal justice that underlies all visible phenomena.

 

Meh. He should probably apologize anyways.

 

Sounds fun, I'll play. First though I'll have to ask you to define your terms, as they say.

1. You are clearly suggesting that God should punish America as a nation, i.e., with disregard to any particular individual. Why is it that America as a nation should be punished rather than just certain individuals numerous though they may be?
2. Why America and not say North Korea, or maybe France? If all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (which they have, except babies) then why should God single out certain nations for punishment instead of simply fragging the entire planet?
3. Soddom and Gomorrah were cities, and fairly small ones. By todays standards they would be small towns, population wise anyhow. How then do they equate to a nation of 300+ million people, especially in terms of agregate punishment?
4. God spared the few righteous of S&G, do you think that he should/would do the same with America?
5. Are there any examples of God punishing America either currently or in the past?

 

haha, i don't really believe in the christian god

but i do agree with the statement!

love the irony!



edit: i suppose my thought would be this: maybe nietzsche was right!

 

Wow. Westboro Baptist Church hard at work, I see.

Let's see, we have God Hates Fags, God Hates America, God Hates Soldiers, God Hates Unwanted Puppies and Kittens, God Hates Kevin Smith Movies, God Hates Playtex Living Gloves and God Hates Non-smoking Vegans.

What next from the Whack Pack? God Hates Home Depot?

 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathe water...

Instead do a yahoo search: "Babylon is America"

 

Completely unnecessary, friend JDFU. America is not Babylon. America is embroiled in a secret war between those who would either convert, deport or exterminate others in the name of their God and those of us who will gladly martyr ourselves in the name of FREEDOM. That's what Christians have done throughout history, it is what W. is currently doing in the Middle East, and it will soon be happening in America.

Bring it.

 

I checked out the "Babylon is America" websites...according to these writers, Babylon is a metaphorical term for present-day America.


JDFU, in a discussion I had a year or so back with your father, Campbell, he clearly stated that the Bible does not speak metaphorically...it is completely accurate as written, down to the last word. So, using your dad's statement as a reading guide, any reference to Babylon in the Bible could only be to the ancient Mesopotamian city-state of that name...there haven't been any countries properly named Babylon since that time, to my knowledge.

Using the same logic: if he was indeed a faultless seer of the future, whoever wrote Revelation would have called America, America.

 

Rastafarians say Britain is Babylon. It seems 'babylon' is a phrase used by those with religious beliefs conditioned by the OT for any nation they have decided is worthy of the wrath of god.

Bob Dylan said 'capitalism is babylon'. (Infidels). The english magus, Aleister Crowley said babalon is a name for the goddess, which was turned around by the christians to reflect the patriarchal order, and demonize the old 'pagan' order.

 

Now let me bring about a hypothetical argument here. Again this is hypothetical. Judging by demographics on most sites we're one of the most, if not the most, Christian country in the world. If you think God is the Christian God why would he come for us? In saying what you're saying JD4U you're saying that God is more apt to be the God of another religion. Why would he rain fire and brimstone amongst his most abiding people?

I don't believe any of this by the way.

 

Is America more christian than Spain or Italy? I'm not sure - fortunately, I live in a country where christianity is increasingly a marginal pursuit.

 

There is not a secret war... I am not trying to forcefully convert anyone. I have been on this forum for 2 and 1/2 years and have I ever held a gun to your head saying "Convert." But many like yourself continue to go along with the popular delusion that Christian has some evil plot. Perhaps that is why Jesus states enter through the narrow gate for wide gate leads to destruction and many enter through it, but the narrow gate, leads to life and FEW FIND IT.

I cannot speak for all Christians, but I can speak for myself and I can tell you what the Bible says. Jesus said, "Go into the world and preach the Gospel." Then He stated, "When the Gospel is preached to all of the world, then the end will come." And yet the Gospel has almost been preached to the whole world and yes I believe that the end IS certainly near based on that fact.

However, how much of the world has trully accepted Christ? If you were to go to your local church you would be suprised how many people were trully saved... but how could you even know? ULTIMATELY, it is then not your title that saves you, but your heart which men cannot see. Therefore, no matter how much "forcing" you think Christians may do... If someone accepts Christ in vain it is meaniless to God.

 

Can you find the name "Jesus" in the OT? (And this is a serious question... no sarcasm this time ; )

 

I'll go out on a limb and guess no...and I'll also say I know what that question is leading to (extensive OT prophecy regarding Jesus, though the actual name isn't used)

If the name Jesus isn't the OT at all, using the logic of word-for-word Biblical infallibility, any connection with the supposed Jesus of OT prophecy and the historic Jesus and/or the Jesus of the Gospels can only be made by inference, conjecture, or an educated guess.

To make my position clear, I think that a historic Jesus lived, so I won't take it further, into Fedup's myth scenario.

If I came off as sarcastic in my previous reply, I didn't intend to be, nor was I personally criticizing Campbell by citing an earlier discussion with him. If you were being sarcastic in the question, I didn't notice it.

Peace, dude.

 

I have to agree with you, in my experience I've never been forced by a Christian to convert. I have been manipulated, guilted and intimidated on four different occasions by three different denominations with in the Christian faith. Eventually I got sick of the hypocrisy that tanited his name and left the faith for good.

Some true blue Christain are out there but they are few. Out of the couple I have met they have never, ever even tried to convert me in any way. I was a good friend with one of them, you could feel the faith coming off of her but we talked about god only a few times, that was only when I brought it up.

Anyways, this little rant is probably getting boring so that's my two cents.

 

This is some serious foil hat-wearing spacealien-watching stuff. Really, there is just no good reason for this goofiness. The "Christians", by which I can only assume you mean all Christians everywhere, are conducting massive world-wide campanigns of genocide?! Or did you mean something else when you suggested that Christians are out to "convert, deport or exterminate others in the name of their God" I don't mean to rant but you're seriously weirding me out here. It's like you can't to decide whether to be a fundamentalist Christian or a pagan so you behave like fundamentalist Christian (hateful whacked-out paranoid fearmongering, that kind of thing) but with pagan beliefs and vocabulary, I don't get it. Usually you only see your kind of lunatic hate stuff from religious fanatics.

And if you're looking to martyr yourself in the name of FREEEEEDOM!! as you say then I'll lend you my +2d6 Claymore of slaying and my Mithril Byrnie if you need them Mr. Wallace.

p.s. Hey, look everybody a Christian who knows what a Byrnie is.

 

Could you tell me which post I made such a statement?

 

"Men don't follow titles, they follow courage".

Stop taking me seriously. I don't. Any more than I take any of you seriously. This is the internet. It's all one big parody. Even if this misguided group of thumpers fails to recognize it, it's still not real.

 

Without reviewing at least 500 posts, no, but if memory serves me correctly, you did clearly express this opinion in the past, whether directly to me or in a discussion with another member.

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize for saying that you were "mentally ill" in a previous post. It's more of a case of "differing perceptions of truth"; neither one of us fits a clinical definition of mental illness, and insulting people is not my usual way...I must have really been in a cranky mood.