A new vendor model for R/C's

Would this idea work?

I have an idea that I think might help out those of us looking to buy research chemicals online. From a vendors perspective there are two things that are likly to get them busted or shut down.


1. For the old pre web tryp websites it was the fact that the actual people running the websites where easily located due to the fact that they had a website for their fronts and some of them even made it obvious who they were and where they lived on their websites. and I know the one I used back then had a return address on their packages that went back to the home of the man who owned the website. This is obviously the prime way a website would get busted, by being easily traced (to the person who owns the website) and by means of shipping (A peice of mail isn't going to be that hard to trace back to some extent, be it to the shippers address due to a return address or postage stamp or whatever, I am not entirly sure how the mail system works.)

2. Another way that a website would get busted is by accepting the payment for the product. If they accept cash they will need to have a bank account to send the money to or an address to mail it to or an account of some sort. no matter what when they take payment they are going to end up giving some hint of who they are and where they are located. If they use Paypal or take credit cards it is going to be the same thing but on an even larger extent. I have not yet used E-gold but I assume there is some way a person could be traced by the DEA if they have the persons E-gold information.
These are the only ways I can think of that a website selling research chemicals could get busted. If the DEA and the customers don't know who or where the products are coming from how can the person sending the product get busted? I don't see how they can. so my solution is:


A sort of "third party" website. This website would not directly sell research chemicals and the owner of the website would not stock chemicals, but it would work as a front for anyone that wanted to buy or sell chemicals. If the DEA traced the owner of the website down they would not be able to do anything with the information as the person running the website would have violated no laws, not even analog laws.

The way it would work is a "vendor" would somehow post to the website (Using some technology ...I don't think a forum style technology would be good in this case... but something made with PHP or CGI or something, and of course encryption) the products they have and what the price is that they want per gram or whatever. Then a "buyer" would post to the website saying that they are interested in buying the product. (This is not a forum style conversation between the buyer and the seller it is simply the buyer posting "for sale --- this ---- this much money" and the buyer posting "I want this much of this ---- I understand total cost will be this". Then the buyer would send to a third party (Persumably the owner of the website) their shipping information and their order number (somehow it would be set up so the order number corresponded to the products that the buyer had selected.) The third party would then send this information to the vendor (and then erase it fully) and the vendor would then send the product to the buyer. As for payment maybe the buyer could send the money to the third party and the third party could somehow send it to the vendor.....ah fuck I lost my train of thought.

Maybe this shit would just complicate matters and add a completly pointless step to the full procedure....and who would be the middle man that people would trust and all that shit (and for that matter who would donate their time to go to all that trouble). I know that this plan is full of flaws but I think that a model similar to this in SOME way would work better than the current method. Pretty much the goals would be

1. Make it so vendors could freely advertise their wares on a neutral third party website with out fear of getting traced down due to the huge popularity they would experience out of being freely advertised.

2. Encourage more people to get into the vendor position.... people with chemistry knowledge wanting to make some extra money by synthesizing shit and sell it in a fashion that wont get them busted. It could work for more than research chemicals also, it would work for any drugs. (or anything for that matter)

3. due to the fact that more vendors would be created and more people would have access to them (through the third party) there would be competition and prices on final product would tend to go downwards, a plus for the consumer, but due to popularity of the new style of vendors and the easy open access overall profits would go up for the vendors, obviously a plus for them.

4. The lack of direct contact between the vendor and the buyer would have some positive aspects that is for sure....also the fact that only a single or very few "third party middle men" know the actualy email address or payment details for both the vendors and the buyers would decrease the majorly that this information would fall into the wrong hands. I wish there was a way to set it up so no humans saw the details but it is really just impossible to do this as far as I can tell....the vendor needs to have an address to send it to etc etc....of course one of the trusted third party people could turn into government informants but it would be less likley to happen and it would be no more harmfull to the vendors than if a government agent found one of their websites (if they where going by the "old" model.)


I just thought this shit up and I know it is probably full of holes and reasons
why it wont work but please don't yell at me too much! Please contribute any ideas you might have about how to make this model or a similar model work in order to make research chemicals more easy to get...not so any dumbass can get them but more like it was before operation web tryp. Any ideas or comments would be good....and fuck it I wasn't going to make this a thread at first but I am not because I typed alot.

Please don't tell me how retarded I am, I was high when I wrote this!

Edit: Or you could set up the website to send the buyers shipping information to the vendor and their payment information to the vendor also but still not have them know the vendors information (how to contact them with out using the third party website.) none of this really talks about payment options that can't be traced to the person you are sending the money to (Even if it is the dea sending you the money) but I am sure someone smarter than me can think of this!

(Is anything I wrote about any different from a vendor just having a website and hushmail? I think I just wasted my time sort of but maybe someone can find a gem someplace in this monster of a post)

 

I think the safest option would simply be to operate in a country without analog laws. The feds would probably charge the operators of the third party website IF they were in the US. I'm not an attorney (duh), but I do know federal conspiracy laws are written so that anyone who acts in any way, however small, to further that conpiracy is potentially looking as much time as the ringleader. Also you would be trusting them with the money, and they might well decide, probably correctly, that those involved in the sale or purchase of these type chems couldn't take any legal action, should they decide simply to keep it.

 

umm the 3rd party website idea simply wont work
advertising selling illegal substances is still illegal wether they have actual possession of product
its conspiracy to sell or something
the 3rd party is very easily traced and equipment installed that traces both incomming and outgoing ip's
every vendor would be busted as wellas customers traced if not busted
dea can even remotely install tracing software..spyware thats customized to the point of not being recognized by any scanners
i had such a spy bot installed on my computer accidentaly, that wa written by the fbi
i knew it was a spy program written to capture a stalker and i submitted it to several antiviruses and spyware companies but because its written to be used by law enforcement they will not include it in the virus definitions

point is.. its easy to comprimze the security at any point in the transaction and trace it to all other points
buying/selling online is asking for trouble
its just not smart

 

Yeah, the third part would be arrested if it exsisted in the United States. I think the easiest alternative is just going to China or some other country and just setting up a big company that sells research chemicals openly, and then using discreet shipping (to avoid detection when shipped into the united states).

But honestly, I kind of like the way it works right now. If you aren't willing to put in hours of research to find a good supplier you probably shouldn't be buying them anyways. Especially because if you aren't willing to put time into looking for them you probably haven't put time into researching and learning about them.

SoaringEagle: Is that really true? That is seriously scary to think the government can just install tracing software on to anybody's computer and learn everything about them. I'm not sure if I believe it, though. Especially if you are running a *nix based operating system, like most servers do. The number of security loop holes in unix is very small and if one was found it could be immediately fixed (because the operating systems are opensource), not to mention most of the computer geniuses are *nix saavy. If you were able to get a copy of a DEA program, and you were a hacker, you could easily reverse engineer it and then use it yourself and have a program that was completely immune to all anti-virus programs. I also find it hard to believe that Anti-Virus companies are legally forced to not add these quasi-secret FBI viruses to their list.

 

well the 1 ihad was on awindows system and was a variation of 3 different commercialy availible spy programs, but alteredd specificaly for the fbi
finding the program then changing it and using it by a hacker is possible im sure, but wouldnt then be immune to antiviruses because it would eventualy end up in the virus database
i would imagine the ones used by law enforcement must be registered as such or so,mething and added to a exclusion list
thats my guess anyway
also on nix systems the 3rd party recipeints nixserver doesnt have to be directly compromized, if theres a suspicion, the dea can install tracking software on any servers the host servers connected to..i dont know exactly how it all works though
i'd send ya all the files from the fbi one so u could examine it yourself, but just reformatted last week so dont got it anymore

 

Kind of off topic, but I thought I'd comment on it cause I've used various flavors of unix since I was a child.

Most admins aren't "computer geniuses," in fact many are incompetent bafoons with a B.S. and MCSE, so there are often careless mistakes made that leave unix systems wide open to attack. The only unix OS that is relatively secure fresh out of the box is openbsd, and that is only for the hardcore.

Point is, never believe that something is completely 'secure.' The whole RC shit is shady anyways, these guys are reaping insane profits and after a couple months you should be able to retire anyways.

 

Fake e-gold information, cash out to multiple accounts. Fees are inevitable, but it guarantees anonynimity. E-gold is dead safe. You could also access e-gold from a different computer just incase you're paranoid about logging IPs

 

How can we legally fight the DEA in an attempt to get these drugs legalized and left alone? There has got to be a way we can do something, I mean this is america not a dictatorship....there has to be something we can do.

Or are we a dictatorship? seems to me we do whatever the leaders tell us to.....blindly following authority is ignorant. these drugs should be legal and unless there is someway I can petition for this or rally for it or something I will feel very ashamed of my country. Is there some process or something I can get involved in to try to keep this shit legal or get it legal?

 

I have no problems with obtaining any chemical or pill I want from vendors, but I am sick of feeling like a criminal for doing it. I have done two years in juvenile detention centers (With some real criminals, and alot of people like me) for having weed (in fairly large amounts) at school. I am sick of being prosecuted for choosing a lifestyle. Why don't people go to jail for drinking coffe? I am sick of being told how to live my life. I feel oppressed as fuck. I know how I want to live my life and it doesn't hurt anyone, but I can't do it legally, I can't do it without feeling afraid with out always having to worry about quality of the drugs I get because of the total lack of regulations, I have to always be worried that my vendors are going to get shut down and my lifestyle will be ruined. I am sick of living in fear. I am not ashamed of myself. I am not ashamed to be a drug user. I make it publicly known that I use drugs and if people don't like it, well I never forced anyone to be my friend. I am sick of cops always harrasing me because they know I do drugs they dont approve of. I don't harass them for drinking or smoking or using coffee. I just want to be left alone. I am sick of the extremly slow pace that legalization and decriminalization is going at. I don't want to be eighty years old by the time it is legal to do these drugs. What is the point of investing in a change that wont happen untill I can no longer enjoy it? Shit needs to change now. People need to stand up for themselves or do something. Look at what happened in the sixtys why doesn't something like that happen again? I would go to rallys and shit I am sick and tired of how I am treated. Is there any way we can try to get this changed on a reasonable time scale? Is there anything I can do or am I just stuck as an individual in a society where an individual means next to nothing. I am disgusted at the entire system. I am forced to piss in a cup to make sure I don't use the drugs the government does no approve of (Hey assholes, I use phenethylamines and tryptamines every single day, looks like your piss tests have failed just like your entire policy!). I will not tolerate a government that will not tolerate my lifestyle choices (as long as my lifestyle choices do not violate others) and I want to try to make a change. How can I change things. I am just a seventeen year old kid I am probably of average intelligence, so I can't vote and I am no genius I can't outsmart the government. What can I do?

 

You can stop whining and deal with reality.

 

Don't read it if you don't want to. Besides didn't you write a big ass thread bitching about how you took too much 2c-e? Why didn't you just deal with reality.

 

Also not to start a flame war or anything but it is that way of thinking that allows the government to abuse their powers so much. Why should I stop whining and take the reality that I am handed with out trying to change it? Passivly following the government with out "whining" about things which you think are unfair is really an idiotic thing to do if you ask me. Should African Americans have stopped "whining" about the reality of segregation and discrimination and just dealt with it? Or should they have done exactly what they did and stood up for what they thought was right. Look it where they are at today for not just dealing with reality and being silent but actually voicing their opinions. Why should it be any different for drug users. We are discriminated against in the work force and in almost every other aspect of life. so why should we deal with it by being silent? If the African Americans in the 50's and 60's where silent we would still be living in a world of segregation and cruelty in that aspect. so why should those who are being discriminated against in the 2000's be silent and just deal with reality? we should do just the opposite, we should organize and let our voices be heard, so that we can shape our own reality. If you feel comfortable accepting the state of the world today that is fine. I really hold nothing against you. But please let me express my beliefs with out being called a whiner. I'm sorry that I got aggresive towards you, although I am sure you could give a fuck less (who gets mad at people over the internet?), but I was being serious and not trying to be a whiner. I like people to look at me in a good way and not as a stupid little kid, so when you called me a whiner it sort of hit me hard, something that it really shouldn't have but oh well. Maybe the drugs are just fucking my emotions up.

 

Getting back on the subject, what you're describing is esentially an online auction much like flea-bay if you know what SWIM's sayin.

 

Bitching? No, more like warning others of the possible consequences. I do just deal with reality, what else am I gonna do? I've dealt with the harshness of reality on many levels. While I warned others in a thread about possible consequences of phenethylamine overuse, "The system is so unfair" druggie rant that just passed in this thread is cliche and really serves no purpose. Once upon a time I was busted for a bunch of candy and had written a similar post to yours then somebody much wiser than myself told me to stop whining and I realized why.

Short answer to your rant: there's nothing you can do about alphabet soup psychedelics being legalized. The notion is ludicrous. I don't necessarily believe they should be illegal but I don't think they should be so readily available.

You wanting to get high and somebody wanting to be treated equally regardless of skin color... that's a horrible comparison and I can see it being offensive to some. No flame wars here, just speaking my mind.

 

Maybe it was a bad comparison and I ment no offense to anyone if anyone takes it that way. I am not a racist in the slightest and I didn't mean to come on like I am if I did. I am in the wrong here and I would just like to apologize to anyone I caused offence to. Your post on 2c-e was a warning to others not bitching and I am sorry I blew it out of context. I acted out of order in this thread and I really honestly would like to apologize.

The reason I see how my comparison was bad is because an individual has the choice to use drugs or not, but a person does not have the choice to be black or white. So yes that really was a bad comparison. However I ment no offence and I didn't see that it could offend anyone, however I still apologize.

 

i think a better example would be religious discrimination since an individual does have the choice to follow a religion or not. Replace any mention to race in my post with religion and I think it will be a much better comparison. Once again I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended and ask that you please don't hold it against me. I opened a can of worms that really should have just been left closed.

My intention with this thread was to find a way to make research chemicals more available and to lower prices while at the same time reducing the risk of getting scammed or a vendor getting busted. I do not know how I fell into a speech on drug politics being unfair and comparisons to race that had no grounding. I do not like to justify my actions but I think the fact that I am under the influence of pain killers (got my wisdom teeth pulled) may have led me to writing the illogical things I did. I mean no justification of what I said, but feel the need to add that this may have had some affect on my writing, My head is really very clouded. I know I am being redundant here, but really I mean no offence to anyone and I am not racist nor did I try to minimize the evils of race discrimination. I think that all people are equal regardless of skin color religion sex and all that. I guess my main differing point with the government is that I think we are equal despite the drugs we use and the lifestyles we choose also. (So long as it doesn't hurt others.)

So please accept my apology, and 2ces I really ment no offence to you either nor did I mean to start a flame war. You are obviously more intelligent than I am when it comes to this field and you obviouisly have more experience than I do as well. I actually thank you for telling me to stop whining and deal with reality now as I see where you are coming from. There is no point trying to change something that can't be changed, it is better to deal with it and find ways around it. So atleast I got something out of this thread. I hope no one looks at me any lesser after all I have said.

 

No offense was taken and however intelligent I am, it's impossible to completely guage someone's wits by internet posts. No need for apology. Painkillers do cloud the mind, I fractured my toe last week and had been on vics all week also.

I don't think anyone here thinks you're an 'idiot' or anything like that, and the only reason I told you to stop whining is because I found myself saying similar things a long while ago. A member who is no longer here basically said the same thing I said to you, and although at first I got pisst, the more I thought about it, the more I realized why he said it.

 

Hmmm... people are dumbasses and most users don't care about safety of their sources. People just like to buy the easy (and risky) way. Such underground source might have hard time to get their bucks.. especially at start, because it would take an infinite time to get a good customer base. I've seen legit shops come and then vanish. :/

 

I hear china has pretty lax laws in reguards to research chemicals I dunno man I've never been scammed for anything online, and there are lots of sources available. At the moment the variety of chemicals on the market is broader than I have ever seen it in the 5 or 6 years I've been following it.

As far as getting busted is concerned, that just makes the game that much greater. Christianity wouldn't be what it is today if they hadn't been drawing fish in the dirt to hide from the romans so many centuries ago.

Further more, individuals are the most powerful force in humanity. Look at all those individuals of the Civil Rights Movement, MLK etc. What about Tim Leary? If you wanna do something to change things, first figure out what exactly you want to change, then ask your self why you want to change it, is it really worth it? Then if you're still motivated ask how and make a plan. There are many fronts on this 'drug war' some people are using politics, some people use to courts, some people just pay off the cops. In any case I'm with 2c, psychedelics should be moderated and controlled. After all they would be in a traditional society. The question is who and how?
-MOR

 

Yeah that is the question, but the thought of somebody buying a twelve pack from the gas station then driving drunk to me is just as shocking (or scary I guess not really shocking) as someone popping a few 2c-i that they just bought from the gas station and then driving high. Unfortunatly I can buy beer from the gas station but not 2c-i. I don't really see phenethylamines and tryptamines as causing more damage to society in general than alcohol does. I actually see it as causing less. Not many people would rush out and buy them, people would still be free to make the choice. And I don't really see anything absurd about the idea of me buying 2c-x and 5-meo-x and 4-aco-x and DOx or whatever I want from the same place I buy my Budlight and my Marlboro Reds. Make an age limit (21 seems fine 18 seems fine take your pick), tax it to pay for whatever, slap warnings on the box (like we do with alcohol and smokes) and of course it is already illegal to drive impaired on anything, research chemicals included. What I want is for research chemicals to be moderated and controlled by the government. I just don't want them to be outlawed and prosecuted. Anyways sorry to go off on another tangent but you are right an individual can make a difference and I only hope that when this drug war is done that I made a difference in some way. But I also agree i should take action and stop bitching and deal with reality the way it is. So really I gained two good insights from this thread! thanks guys =P.