Bullies

Hi everyone. I have a seven year old son who is having trouble with another one of his classmates on the bus. This classmate of his always sits with him and bullies him. He has banged his head into the other seat, pulled his hair and the other day he came home with marker on his face. This child had drew on his face. I wouldn't call it exactly teasing. These two played together over the summer and do seem to be friends. I think that this classmate of his is not really doing this to be mean per se. It sound like it is more of a messing around type situation. But my son is getting tired of it. I called the bus garage and they said that they would make sure that this child does not sit in the same seat with my son. But I noticed that when he was dropped off yesterday they were in the same seat again. My husband has told my son to start defending himself. At first I didn't agree with this until we tried a few other things. When this first started I had him mention to the bus driver what was going on and then when that didn't work that is when I called and talked to the bus driver. Now it seems that is not going to work either. So now I am starting to agree with my husband. He should not have to sit and take this day in and day out. What do you guys suggest? Thanks

 

You need to talk to the schools. Most schools are now supposed to have a "Zero Tolerance Bullying" program in place (better use of money than "Say No to Drugs" IMO.) But, often the bullying takes place on the bus, playground, Gym class (where usually the teachers are the ones who bullied people themselves so they "don't notice" and in the cafeteria.

The principal AND the teacher should be spoken with. This boy is VIOLENT and it is not "just messing around" it's cruel and could turn into very serious behavior, both on the boy's part and children like your son getting emotionally and physically hurt.

The principal of our school will often ride the bus and keep order, if the bus driver refuses to, and eventually that driver will be taken aside and maybe lose his job, if it continues.

Bullying should NEVER be seen as "kids just being kids" it is mean, cruel and usually the most sensitive and least able to defend themselves children are the victims and the most "popular" and best able to hide their activities from the adults are the bullies.

Don't sit by and hope "it will get better" by itself. I know, it will ONLY get worse. Physically fighting back will ONLY get YOUR son in trouble (in our district physical fighting results in suspension, and eventually being sent to BD school, if it contiues. When the bully usually gets off scott free, because the parents never complained.) Your child is YOUNG, he still needs the protection of his parents, he should NOT be expected to "handle it" or "suck it up" or "fight for your rights with your hands and fists." None of these teach your child anything but to either continue to be a victim or become a bully himself. Tell your husband to get his "fight" metality out of your home. There is NO place for it, in a Child's World.

STAND UP FOR YOUR CHILD. Talk to the pricipal and the teacher. Screw the bus company, in 15 years of dealing with schools and bus companies, I have found most bus companies are run by and hire mostly clueless people, and you will get nowhere with them. Go to the source, the school, who shouldn't be allowing thie behavior in the first place.

Good luck to your child. He should not have to put up with cruel treatment by an other child, and being not paid attention to by the school OR his own father.

 

The only person who can stand up for your son is your son. I agree with your husband. Parents, teachers and cops can't always be around. You have to instill a sense of self defenise in your children as well. Don't teach them to be tattle tells running to find adults. They will need these skills to not be taken avantage of the rest of their lives. So what if your son gets in trouble once. It teaches all the others that he won't sit there and take it which is what most bullies are looking for.

 

He's a CHILD. "Running for adults" is quite different than obtaining help from the people children with caring parents are supposed to get it........from their parents.

"Defending himself" can and will get him a suspension and a reputation as a Trouble Maker. This isn't "he called me a poo poo head." This child was harmed and bullied. Haid, If YOU knew anything about children, or cared about their emotional health, you might actually see why your "let him defend himself" post is ridiculous.

Either you don't have any children, Haid, or they aren't old enough to be in school OR they are the bullies themselves and don't "need" adult internvention. I don't know which, but there is NO WAY your kids could be fighting, and remain in school.

:banghead: Never mind. It's like......

 

I do have kids, they are in school and I don't incourage fighting. You don't have to get in a physical fight to defend yourself but sometimes it happens. Surely in your life you have had to stand up for yourself? No? Have you always had the convenience of others to sort out your problems? Maybe you have just had an easy life. People need to learn to stand up for themselves. It is an essential part of life. My kids do not bully anyone but yet they are not bullied. The reason is because they know I will back them if they need to defend themselves against being attacked. They have never come off as the "I'll go tell" kids, which just makes them more of a target. Teach your kids to be able to take care of themselves in social situations, it will be much easier for them and leave them with a life lesson. Those that accept being the victim will be a victim, those that depend on others to keep them from being a victim will be a victim.

 

I've had FAR from an easy life, my freind.

IF you back up your kids, then you are doing the RIGHT thing. Children who have a good support system at home can learn to reduce bullying from others.

EMOTIONAL self defense is much different than physical self defense. Yes, of course children need to be able to stand up for themselves. but often bullies are VERY GOOD at choosing the children least able to display these skills. They can TASTE weakness (not in a bad way, but in the way of very artisitic, emotional, and sensitive children are, and bullies perceive this as "weakness." Also these children, who are most likely to be bullied, are the least likely to retaliate. BUT, when they are given the OK to use physical force, if can turn deadly, if they are not supported at home.

Haid, if you are supportive of your kids, them maybe they have learned PSYCHOLGICAL self defense at an early age. Not all children have learned this, nor are all good at it. Also, children with visible issues, physical or emotional or even verbal, tend to be picked out by bullies at a huge rate. THESE CHILDREN DO NEED THE HELP OF OTHERS.

One of my children has Tourette's Syndrome. As a small child, she had NO self defense strategies which worked against bullies, why? Well, most of their parents were just like them. My dd and myself and eventually my husband HAD TO go to the principal, as she was physically injured more than once. (Of course, it happened in Gym class and the muscle headed gym teacher "didn't see" anything happen....)

It also takes TIME to teach children to take care of themselves in social situations. Look at toddlers, if someone takes their toy, they have two behaviors, cry and run away, or hit. Neither are appropriate for older children. But, these self defense strategies need to be taught. Some schools have anti-bullying strategies and programs in place, some don't.

When our oldest dd was hurt in Middle School, we found out there WAS an antibullying program, but the principal (who, by the way, was a fucking GYM teacher first) refused to implement it. My dh and I, and many other parents insisted, and he insisted "there is no bullying at this school." Being a bully himself, he couldn't see it. When our dd (who, by that time was in therapy) finally had enough and HIT one of the kids who were harming her, SHE got suspended, and threatened with expulsion. My dh and I did NOT agree that she should have hit the boy who was constantly harming her (she would come home with bruises and he tried to grab her breasts And put his hand between her legs on a few occasions.) but the prinical refused to do anything to they boy because he was the "star" of the baseball team. And, of course, as in most bullying situations, "I didn't see it happen." That boy could have killed a kid in front of that principal and he "wouldn't have seen it."

Sunshine graduated and went to High School where bullying is taken VERY seriously, and none occured even at the large high school that we could see (and last summer, we almost had to take out a restraining order against the boy, who, after 8 years was still bothering her) and a year later, the principal of the Jr Jigh was ARRESTED for Sexual Misconduct. And "unprofessional behavior" in the school. Nice, huh? In schools where nothing is done about bullying, the adminitration is usually at fault.

FIRST the OP needs to contact the Adminstration of the school and feel them out about whether an antibullying program is there, or if they are willing to implement it, and what they do about bullying. It's everybody's business, because children can be harmed for life by this behavior.

 

Exactly, that is what I am talking about. This should be taught at home. I could maybe see it if your child had developmental difficulties. I just don't think many kids are helped by mommy getting involved. It usually makes their life worse because now they are viewed as really weak. Like I said teaching your children to stand up for themselves is imperative to their social well being. Occasionally this will lead to a physical altercation, some bullies like to push it. However, I would rather my kid get into a fight and be respected from then on then to be picked on everyday they are at school or where the bulling is taking place.

 

That is just messed up. You taught your daughter that she should allow herself to be molested instead of using physical force? Not to attack you but I don't understand that. I have told my children if they are in that type of situation to bite, hit, kick and do whatever they have to. I will deal with the school system and why they are allowing people to be molested if need be. Parents teach your children not to be victims for their own sake.

 

I agree with Haid...my youngest son was jumped in the grade school bathroom by 2 boys...and the janitor found him lying on the floor...he had been kicked and punched ...and was banged up badly. The school sent him home n the bus and didnt bother to even call us and let us know what happened..we found out when he got home and told us. we went to the school the next day...and the bullying continued. We have since found out that some of the bullies parents work at that school....we pulled our son out...and have since taught him to take action if it ever happens again...because he might not be able to depend on the school to protect him. He is 20 now.

 

bullies do it for the reaction. You take away the reaction, they lose interest in bullying you. You fight back, you get in trouble, *and* you are lowering yourself to their level, and you possibly get your butt kicked in the process. It only earns the respect of those who place too great a value in physical violence (the kids whose parents hit them, most likely, because they don't know any different, and don't realize how abusive that is). The bully's parents are probably bullies, too, and talking to them won't do anything but make your life harder. It's all about a power struggle, you take away their power over you, in other words, stop letting it bother you, laugh at them instead, whatever it takes don't give them the upper hand because that's all they want is control over someone else. The only answer to bullying, or any other form of victimization is to not play the game. Laughing at bullies is the worst thing anyone can do to them (in their own minds, anyway). And if you can make everyone else laugh at them, too, they will leave you alone.

You don't have to teach your children violence and intimidation, you don't have to be either a victim or a bully. There are lots of people who are neither abused nor abusers, but they don't usually come from families who believe it's okay to hit a child for any reason. They come from families who place the highest value on respect, respect for others as well as ourselves. Teaching your kid to become a bully isn't any better than being bullied by someone else, it's all about control issues, and you gotta teach them from the get-go that nobody ever wins a power struggle. But you can't teach them about control issues until and unless you start recognizing them in yourself. This issue is exactly why parents should never hit their kids, for any reason. It only lays the foundation for life-long power and control issues. It's never okay to exert control over another person, no matter how much bigger you are than them.

 

Not always...My son would walk away...and they would follow him....people saw it happening...my son didnt fight back..he told the teachers , who would then ask the bullies , who would deny it...and then beat the snot out of him. The verry first day at that school a teacher told us of the bully problem..so we asked the principle...who told us there was NO problem. The bullies got away with it at that school because their parents either worked there or were friends with teachers...its a verry tight little clan at that school.

 

sometimes there are ways to keep from being bullied around by talking to someone, or avoiding the person, but sometimes the only way to keep from being picked on is to take a stand and show the kid that you arent going to take it anymore...and as for them actually being "friends", i dont think i would consider anyone that bangs my head against a bus seat a friend...

let your son know that if passive means wont work, he really does need to stand up for himself and show that bully that he is a strong individual, and will not tolerate cruelty from anyone...

 

Fortunately at least in schools in my area the schools are being really active with the Zero tolerance on the bullying. Back when I was in school it wasn't stopped and there were many problems, but just over the past few years it has been recognized as a REAL problem, and not just kids being kids. I think absolutely that the schools should be informed of the problem, and if you don't see an improvemnt or even someone makign steps to remedy the situation...there are peopel over the principals head that you can go to. I'm not shy about contacting the school boards , etc. I can't see where teaching our kids to fight back physically is solving the problem. IMO it would just make more bully's.

 

What happens when you laugh and they kick your butt? You have to stand up for yourself, no one is going to do it for you. Eventually your parents are not around. Self defense is different then provoking. All kids should be taught how to protect themselves mentally and physically. When you don't do so you don't provide your children any options other then to just take it.

It solves the problem because bullies are looking for the weak ones who don't fight back and just take it. They then esculate it further and further. Teach them to use force as a last resort but sometimes it is necessary. My children can use this knowledge whether they are 10 and being pushed around and bullied or if they are 16 and being raped. Self defense breaks the cycle up front and the bully will move on to easier targets. I think the zero tolerance policies are good but they don't take into account self protection which is a right all people should have. Push the schools for better policies, I am all for it but realize that polies break down, people let you down and in the end you have to count on yourself sometimes.

This is dead on. It will also teach your child self respect and confidence to handle themselves.

 

I'm a paciifist. I beleive in, if it is neccesary, fighting with words, not fists. when y dd had hit this boy, he denied doing anything to her, and she was then suspended. (Bullies are masters at playing the System, and they rarely get caught, if they can get someone else to take the fall for their own violence.) It would have taught Sunshine that physical force was OK. She was, after all, in a place that was supposed to be safe. IF she had been attacked in a non-safe place, or it was a life or death situation, then she knew that physical force may be neccesary, but NOT in school. As it was, she DID hit the boy, the principal took HIS side, didn't belevie her story, and the boy continued. He was still calling my dd last summer (7 years after this event) and saying things to her. Bear called his house (the idiot left his number on caller ID) and said the police had been called (they had) and that they would involve the FBI if neccesary. (Don't think it would come to that, but phone intimidation is considered a Fed Offense.) Her hitting him did NOTHING to stop the bullying, and he only continued. But, at least, when the school district got involved (I went over the Gym Teacher Prinicpal's head) the abuse stopped at school, but it took a while for them to get involved. IF violence was the answer, he should have stopped the MINUTE she hit him. NO?

Also, if a Bully is not taken care of by the administration, they will just pick an other victim and an other and an other. By going to the Administration and demanding something be done, not just for HIM, but to all bullies, all the children in the school were safer.

 

I feel that physical force is ok anytime you are being molested but to each their own I guess. If you are not safe in a place you should be then you still have to look out for yourself not just assume the roll of victim so you don't get in trouble with school officials.

Depends on what kind of hit it was. A weak frustration hit would have been viewed as such. A butt kicking would have been remembered even if it didn't come from her.

I agree here. I stated that I support working with the school to adjust policy and be taken seriously. I was just stating adults won't always be around to stop abuse.

 

I suggest that you talk to the other child's parents invite them over and have a sit down and talk to them about there son's behavior towards you son. explain your concern about the bus ride to and from school and make it very clear to them that you are in no way attacking the way they have raised their son you are just very worried that this "messing around" will turn into something serious one day. also tell the other couple that if this proceeds you will have a talk with the school about what has been going on.

 

My little step-brother was constantly being bullied on the bus. He'd told the bus driver, he'd told the principal, his mom even went to the school and told the principal AGAIN. Nothing was ever done to stop the bullying so he beat the crap out of the kid. The bus driver said he didn't think it was a good idea for them to sit together. Now, they play together daily. They even went trick-or-treating together.
I beat up a few kids that wouldn't leave me alone in school. I'm not upset about it. I showed them that I could hold my own if they didn't listen to the "Stop now"s.

 

I have never physically hit an other individual. I did once hit my first child, and I know it was wrong. It is probably the worst thing I have ever done in my life. I have never hit an other person. I beleive in defending oneself with words, not fists.

I used to get bullied, being a smart ass and using my brain to make points (even if the other person had no idea what I was talking aobut) is a better alternative than violence.

Something funny about the kids who used to Bully when I was young. The girls who bullied me nearly all married into abusive relationships. I think the fact that the idea "If someone doesn't do what you want, then you hit them." Was taken to heart. Now, many of them are divorced, a few of them on 4th and 5th marraiges. They also live in the Trash Town I grew up in. It is not a good place to live. (The kind of place where Molotov Cocktails being through through people's windows is a normal thing. WHY my parents moved there makes no sense to me. I guess the low property taxes were a draw to my father....*sigh* really sad.)

My dh was taught to "fight for his rights." He got suspended numerous times for fighting. He ended up getting a Juvie record, for breaking an other boy's arm in a fight. His freaking asshole father still thought to his death that Bear did nothing wrong by damaging this child. Bear and this boy have since made up,(It's been more than 30 years) and still occasionallly keep in touch. But, Bear has Tourette's and was terribly teased as a child. His fighting not only got him a record but did NOTHING to stop the people who Bullied him. As he got older he got bigger, much bigger. He had to learn that using his fists was NOT acceptable. He could well have really really hurt someone badly. He said it was one of the hardest things he has ever done. I am damn glad he learned this before I met him, or I doubt we would be married. People who think hitting is a good idea tend to hit those they love more than anyone else.

But, still, my dh's fighting NEVER stopped a bully. I don't see the point AND what if you lose the fight? THAT is a set up for every bully in town to make you his victim.

 

No, because then everyone sees you will stand up for yourself even if you lose. They go looking for the kids that don't do that.

Your telling me that your husband broke someones arm and they continued to bully him? That don't sound right.

I hear what you are saying but like I said I feel like you have to stick up for yourself and not always rely on someone else to protect you. Don't go around provoking fights but don't let yourself be pushed over at someone elses will either.