The intent of christ

And Occam, you chose not to answer my point about your original post that Jesus came not to teach reason or rationalism, but to instill faith.

 

jesus came to point the way not point the finger

 

I definitely *deserve* to be there next to you, yes. However, God gave His own life in sacrifice so that we may avoid it. I am definitely not going to throw that back in His face. So I accepted the gift He offers to all of us.

Hmmm... I generally try to support my beliefs with historical evidence and reason. I cannot argue anyone into the kingdom, but I can do my best to answer questions and defend my beliefs.

Well, it is true, but I wouldn't put it that way. I wouldn't fall back on hell to convince someone to become a Christian.

He is the focus, but the conflict comes with Jesus. Few Christians will disagree with Jews regarding the nature of God. Christ created the division because He said that He was Messiah. Jews and Christians Christians believe in the same God. I don't know enough about Islam to say what they believe, but their take on Biblical history is a bit skewed from a Christian/Jewish perspective. I do not believe that they believe in the same God.

Why? They all have SOME common ground (like they are all faiths), but what good would that do? If they came to agreement, wouldn't they just lose their individuality? Or are you saying that they should just agree to disagree? If that is the case, I think that you should abandon your hope.

 

Ahh... the Swoon Theory. Sorry, it is just too unlikely. Even a master herbalist would have trouble fixing a ruptured heart, pierced and flooded lungs, and massive blood loss. The details of what Crucifixtion did to the human body are well documented by historians and doctors both religious and secular. The possibility of Christ surviving (even passing out) is pretty small. For more detailed information, you can search the internet.

 

Indeed Jesus(peace be upon him) was a man and a messanger like many before him, believing that Allah(may he be exalted) has a son is polytheistic ideas which has been mixtured with the true message of Christ.

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. Deuteronomy 6:4)

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Mark 12:29)"

"My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

Mark 10:18 Jesus said “And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”
John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"

Jesus(peace be upon him) was delivered by a woman, drank from her breast, needed to excrement and did hundreds of other things which human people do, do you then think that his Lord did all these things?
Either a) you are polytheistic people because Jesus(peace be upon him) was not like "the Father" hence you worship to different gods or b) Jesus was not divine but a messanger like those before him.

Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, A man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know. " " (Acts 2:22)

171. O People of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three!'' Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One God, hallowed be He above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.[Quran 4.171]

That would work if all would have followed the religion of Abraham(peace be upon him)
3.65 Ye People of the Book! Why dispute ye about Abraham, when the Law and the Gospel Were not revealed Till after him? Have ye no understanding?

3.66 Ah! Ye are those who fell to disputing (Even) in matters of which ye had some knowledge! but why dispute ye in matters of which ye have no knowledge? It is Allah Who knows, and ye who know not!

3.67 Ibrahim[Abraham] was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim(bowed his will to Allah's) Hanifa and he was not of the Mushrikin[the polytheists]

They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah." [Quran Al-Baqarah]

Then, We have sent the revelation to you: "Follow the religion of Ibrahim[Abraham] (he was a) Hanif, and he was not one of the idolators.''[Quran Nahl]

 

Well your statement that Jesus was a man and no more, simply means you donot believe the bible or what Jesus said of Himself. Jesus was the only man in history who fulfilled all 300 prophecies of the old testament. A book which was written hundreds of years before the birth of Christ. If you think Christ was just a man, then I have some land in florida to sell you.

 

Nostradamus had an even larger number of prophecies come true, so Jesus may have to accept second place.

It is possible that all those fulfilled prophecies were either fabrications by his parents, or later on, fulfilled after they were known by Jesus.
Not that I believe that, but it is not out of the question, is it?

 

How gullible many people are to day and how obstianate. Nostradamus was a big joke, he wrote thousands of predections and got one or 2 seemingly correct, but you see people being astonished by one thing seeming quite accurate and forget about the thousand wrongs, idoitic statements like those of Nostradamus can not be compared to prophecies made by the Lord or by prophets like Jesus(peace be upon him) and Muhammed(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him).

 

Well most of the prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus were not under His control. Jesus would of had to make Judas betray Him and He would of had to tell Judas to betray Him for 30 pieces of silver. And then after Christ died on the cross they would have to make a deal with the government not to break His legs. Buy the time you get through the 300 prophecies you realize nobody could keep this story straight unless God was in control of it. There are hidden prophecies as well that many were not even aware of, and yet those prophecies were fulfilled as well. Also the 300 prophecies were just the tip of the iceberg, now there are the modern day prophecies about Israel and the world that are being fulfilled which number many more.

 

Lol

Didnt this one cause some controversy
In the end
Jesus was still.. a man.

There can be no history based on one book

Occam

 

Wow..

Occam seems to have had fun on this thread.
Especially with alsharad.
But he is just one of hundreds that have spouted the same stuff.
Hell for the unbelievers.
Anyone who dont think like me is tortured forever... lol

How predictable can you get.
And where is hell?

No-where any human method or observation has ever seen.
Trolls under bridges
Or santas north pole
House at pooh corner
that, is hell

Occam

 

I don't think it is impossible that Jesus told Judas to betray him. He may have felt Judas alone would have the strength to do it.
The legs thing I don't get at all. It just supports the idea he was alive 1 1/2 days later when they took him down.
The number 300 is the latest one. In the 80's it was only in the mid 60's. Why did it take 2000 years for them to find the other 240?
Much of it is no more than interpretation, and even if he did fulfill a number of them legitimately, that is not a unique event.
The Native American prophecies are clearer and more apparent than any bible ones, imho.

 

bg13

true

Ocam

 

You say the Native American prophecies are clearer. Tell me, what is the point of the Native American Prophecies? And where did you get the idea that the prophecies of Christ first coming only numbered in the 60's in the 1980s? And Jesus Christ did not just fulfill a number of them, He fulfilled 100% of those that described His first coming, which is unique. Also the prophecies of the Bible tell us what is going to happen to the entire world. Are the Native American prophecies that detailed? Do the Native American prophecies talk about the Astroid that will strike the earth? Do they tell us what is going to happen to America when we are attacked by the Northern nations? Do the Native American prophecies tell us what is going to happen to the Russian army and their allies when they attack Israel? Does the Native American prophecies speak about Jerusalems sealed East Gate? Does the Native American prophecies speak about the future ruler of Europe who will make all people of the earth receieve his mark 666 on their right hand or forhead? And without his mark you will not be able to buy or sell. Does the Native American prophecies talk about how this evil man will proclaim Himself God, and it will be a requirement that the whole world worship him? The Bible has a story line that you can follow, and it's telling you this is what will happen. Now tell me, if the Native American prophecies are so clear. Tell me what world events will take place at the time of the end. If the Native American Prophecies are so much clearer and more apparent then the Bible, then tell us the future.

 

c34

Bucolic storyline. Crappy acting. Idiotic premise. Horrific ending.
This is your bible. A book for congenital idiots.
Thats you.

Occam

 

Well you might not like the storyline, you might not like the ending, you might think those who follow it are idiots. Yet I got to tell you, the world is doing exactly what the Bible said they would do. The Jews are back in Israel, they have retaken Jerusalem. Jerusalems East Gate is sealed as the Bible stated it would be. And the Jews are surrounded by enemies who want to destroy the state of Israel. Thats what the Bible said would happen. Do you see anything different? Because if you do, you will have to start making up your own stories.

 

Campbell

Sorry, went ballistic irate

The bible the bible the bible

What about the intent of the teachings of christ?


Christ asked us to THINK
Your bible asks us to ACCEPT
Prophesy is a load of.....especially by ignorant priests stuck in 10th century monastaries
Thats where the bible comes from, not the mouth of christ.
ALL the bibles sayings of christ a 5th hand.

Occam

 

Well Christ tells us that whosoever believes in Him will not pass away but will have eternal life. If you give Christ half a chance, He will reveal who He is to you. There is such a thing called the Majority Text. It is copies of the Bible that were copied by many men, over many years, and from many areas of the world. What all these copies have im common, is they all agree. And it is because of this, we can have confidence that the Bible we have today is true and accurate.

 

Campbell

Cant you people argue without a 'text' tp back you up.?
Are you so 'mentally challenged'?
Dont you have any thoughts of your own?

Occam

 

Well years ago no ships captain would ever think of heading out to sea without a good compass. Its not that the captain was mentally challenged, he just knew he could depend on his compass to guide him through uncharted waters. For the Christian, the Bible like the compass, will always point us on a true heading.