Religion/Spirituality in a School Curriculum

I know I asked some of you these questions before and I have your responses. I just can't find the thread that I made. I need a few more responses to finish my research this weekend. Thank you for all who took the time to help me!

1-[font=&quot] [/font]Do you think religion/spirituality belongs in a school curriculum? Why?
2-[font=&quot] [/font]Do you think students who are in these schools/curriculums are above or below students who receive schooling without religion/spirituality?
3-Please share any experiences if you’d like if you have or had children in any curriculum that has any religious or spiritual aspect.

 

I'm not sure how to answer this. It is kind of a mixed subject for me. I know that growing up, I had Christianity shoved down my throat to the point where I hated church and did eveything in my power to not have to go, but now that I am older, I realize that it did give me a conscience, and decent morals. I can see in retrospect, how much trouble I avoided as a youth, even with all my friends being the trouble making criminals that they were. While they were doing what ever they wanted, without worrying about consequence, I thought about who or what would be hurt by my actions. Now at my age, I generally avoid most trouble, except I am admittedly have on the gas pedal, while my friend still act like a bunch of criminal who are out for themselves only. I have my two best friends that I would trust with anything I own or have, including my life, and the rest of them I wouldn't turn my back on. They won't lend a helping hand unless it benifits them ect. Not that this really answers your question. I generally try to not offend anyone, and feel that some of my opinions are better left unsaid. I do think that schools should teach the children to believe in something other than the main religious figure of the U.S., the almighty dollar.

 

1. No, I don't think it should because religion is a personal issue not an education one. I think presenting children with religious material and treating it just like any other factual information is in a way brainwashing. There should be a seperation of religion and education is my opinion.


2. I think the kids going to a religious school might have a slight avantage. I think this is because students in religious private schools probably have more money per student spent on them. Comparing religious and non-religious private schools I don't think you would see a difference.

3. No experience with my kids. I went to a Catholic School for a couple of years when I was a kid. It was nice becuase of the small class sizes. I never liked the religious part of it though and usually got into trouble for asking questions. Anytime questions spark hostility, you can bet something is wrong there.

 

1. I feel essentially the same as Haid.

2. I agree with Haid that kids in private schools do have somewhat of an advantage because of better resources. However, I think knowledge-wise they may have a disadvantage. I have witnessed in kids as I grew up, and kids I've cared for, that the ones who are taught religion as "fact", alongside math, grammar, etc. in school, are generally slower to question the "why?" of things (does that make sense?) They are often quicker in taking leaps of faith regarding why things happen, to mentally assign supernatural causes to things because it's easier. And instead of becoming curious much of the time, they might just say "It's that way because it's that way" and leave it at that. In contrast, kids who are taught spirituality more as IDEAS and BELIEFS and science as, well, SCIENCE, have more a tendency to use their powers of perception, observation, and reason to discover new things in the world.

3. For the record, I grew up in a Unitarian Universalist household, with a religious educator for a mom. So instead of learning religion as FACT my close friends and I learned about the beliefs of different people around the world, and as we grew up began to incorporate those different ideas and beleifs into our own personal creeds.

 

like Humblebee, I was raised UU (after the age of ten. before that, my dad was a Methodist minister). I very strongly believe in educating my children about all sorts of different faiths and belief systems, and encouraging them to find their own path. I don't believe in indoctrination, for the reasons Haid pointed out, but mostly because the only difference between indoctrination and brainwashing is the age of the victim. I do not believe in Absolutes, and have big problems with the religious exclusivism which is part and parcel of any organized religion (yes, even UUism). I view most religions as tools of oppression, and while I do see good in them, can't get past the bad parts enough to ever consider myself a follower of any of them. As far as schools go, I only know firsthand about our own schools here where I grew up and still live. I do believe the religious schools here are vastly superior to the secular public schools (as far as I know, all private schools must be affiliated with a church in TN, this law extends even to homeschooling), but that has nothing to do with faith/religion, and everything to do with lack of funds, government regulations, red tape, and beaurocracy hindering the public schools from doing a good job educating the children.

FWIW - my oldest is currently enrolled in what is technically a church related private school which allows me to teach her at home without any interference from the government (we are unschooling life). I do believe that this is the best route for both of us.

 

PUBLIC education is funded by the State. The Constitution requires a clear separation between Church and State, so NO, religion does not belong in Publically funded schools in any way. Teachers barely have the time to teach reading, writing and 'rithmatic. They certainly don't have the time (or the right or the education) to teach each and every form of Religion and Spirutualism there is. It's simply undoable.

Also, WHICH form of which religion would be taught? There are thousands of different forms of Chirstianity, several forms of Islam, Several forms of Judaism, not to mention Sikism, Jainism, Buddism, Hinduism, and other less common religions. What about people who practice Satanism? How could that be "taught" in conjuction with Christianity or Judaism or Islam, as it is both reliant on and the antithesis of these? And, other religions simply do not address direct dieties or demons, like Buddism and Jainism. It can't and simply isn't something schools should do.

 

I come from system, where religion has a place in schools. But tradtitionally, Germany doesn't have the religious diversity that the US has, there is also barely and christian fundamentalism. So there basically is protestant and catholic religion class, and an ethics class in the higher grades for those that chose to not be part of religion class.

These classes are in no way indoctrinating, and discussion and questions are always part of them. This is also the place for learning about other religions, believesystems, and philosophy, the development of ethics worldwide, Social equality, poverty. Humanism. And yes, also Christian things, but not from an indoctrinating viewpoint. It's basically about biblestories, and what they can tell us. The question of evolution or creationism is in no way a question. It is rather taught, that evolution is the way science sees it, and that the creation story is a story. It explains.

So, for me it has always been part of my life, it has been a pretty open class, a source for easy good grades, and a place to learn to debate things. As a thing like that, I would not want to miss it. As an indoctrinating class, I would want to see it banned.

I have been to a catholic school, and it was better (only a little) in some aspects then public school, but only from a sophistication point. Things like social life is kinda, well neglected. But since in germany the topics of religion class are made by the state, and since most of the teachers were not nuns, religion class was very different then things that were presented by the school in a sublime way.

 

I think that has a lot to do with it. And, I am not sure, but I don't think Germany has a Constitutional Right for the separation of Church and State.

Recently, has Germany had in influx of Islamists? I have heard this, but I don't always trust the American press. I am wondering how this will be handled by the schools which teach religion.

Our area has a large number of Muslim children, and has for years. Seeing a young girl don a headscarf when she has her first menstruation is normal in our area, asking someone if they shun pork and shellfish before cooking for a pot luck is as common as asking for allergy or vegetarian information from people. I wonder how this will be handled in areas where The Muslim faith is much newer to the long time occupants of the country.

 

there is an increasing population of turkish people in germany, but still, it is very small. In Berlin, which probably has one of the highest percentages, the overall percentage of non germans is 12%. So yes, muslims are a part of germany, and it's becomming an issue. Right now, they are getting their religous education outside of the schools, but it is talked about bringing it into school, for the reason, that the curriculum should be controlled by the state to avoid fundamentalism. Right now the local mosques are responsible for what is taught, and that probably isn's always the good way. Muslims have to go to the ethics class. It is similar to religion class, just without a faiith as a base.


We do have a contitutional law that states that church and state are separate, but it's carried out a little different then in the US. No institution influences the other in their decisions. But, in germany, there is a special tax collected, that goes to the church. If you leave your church, you don't have to pay it. The tax is collected by the state. The curriculum for religion class is made by both, the church and the state. So there are definately places where both are connected, but they don't influence each other. Which is what is important.

But with someone like Bush, bringing up religious phrases from time to time, one can't really talk of a separation of church and state either..... ;-)

About the food part, this is not becomming an issue yet. At least not in my immediate circle. A lot of immigrants stay with themselves. It's not that they are in general not welcome, a lot of times they like it that way. Which is sad, and a big problem.
But seeing girls and women with covered hair is a natural picture since years.

 

separation of church and state does not exist in Tn government either. Almost all of our state laws are beneficial to Christians, and detrimental to anyone else. They just added their first ammendment, defining marriage to be the union of one man and one woman. :$ And even though religion is not taught in public schools (it was when I was a kid, though it wasn't required, it was an elective), there is still indoctrination and heavy pressure from teachers and other students to be "saved" as this is a very Southern Baptist sort of area. But see, most people who are Christian already don't recognize these things as being oppressive because it doesn't affect them negatively. And most of those who do recognize it think it's okay because they are helping those poor heathens by showing them the light and the way to Salvation through Jesus, amen. :&

 

Religion does not belong in a school curriculum. Religion or Spiritual beliefs are personal matters and should be taught within the family. For myfamily we want to expose our son to a variety of religions and spirituality.

Can't really answer your second question. Are you talking about religious schools or public school with religious education?

We include our son in the spiritual practices of our religion. And we will expose him to others of varied religious beliefs. He sees his pagan parents celebrating christmas with his catholic grandparents and his jewish cousins. We also have friends who are buddhists and friends who practice native american spirituality. Hopefully one day he will be able to choose what appeals to him.

HippyLandscaper mentioned morals and ethics. I believe you can teach morals and ethics without imposing religious beliefs. It's wrong to kill no matter how you look at it. It's wrong to steal, evenifyou are the US government. Taking care of those in need or giving to less fortunate is a good moral thing to do. It has nothing to do with religion. Our son recently had his first haircut. We made a big deal about sending his hair to make a wig for a little boy or girl who didn't have any hair because they were sick. It was a great moral lesson for him on helping others. No religion involved.

Kathi

 

Seperation of church and state should guarentee religion is out of the public schools but here in Florida it's not the reality. My daughter's math teacher is constantly urging students to come to his church and join the youth group he leads, to the degree where you start wondering if he makes a commission for each one he drags in. This shouldn't be going on during class time,but complaints haven't done anything. My daughter is already being harrassed by a group of "christian" girls who tell everyone they don't like that they will go to hell. These are basically bullies who hide behind "religious freedom" and the school allows it to go on. I could take them to court but my daughter doesn't want that pressure on her, and honestly I fear dealing with religious whackos has become part of everyday life in much of the world anyway.Might as well learn to ignore them now.

 

I used to be one of those religious wackos. Believe me, you are taught that it is not only your right to push your religion on everyone and to tell them they are going to burn in hell, it is actually your responsibility. You are held accountable, according tothem, for every soul that you come in contact with and you don't "lead them to the lord." People will go to any means to convert you.

As far as your daughter, tell her to tell them, "It's your hell, you go burn in it."

Kathi (Who finally discovered the Goddess loves me unconditionally."

 

Yep, it's just one of the reasons we all hate him so much. He would be very happy to tear up the Constitution and make this country a Facist state, of course, in favor of "his people."

When people try to indoctrinate myself or my kids, I always asks if they "follow the Bible to the letter." Of course, they always say yes. So, I then tell them I assume they have slaves, they keep a Kosher Kitchen (No Shrimp for you!) they cover their heads if they are womyn and never cut their hair, it's all in there.....of course, they try to tell me "That stuff isn't relevent anymore." But, of course, stoning "homosexshuls," and subjugating womyn and being anti-abortion, and beleiving in "The Rapture" (despite the fact that the last two aren't even IN the Bible) are OK.

*sigh*

 

thank you all sooooooooooooooo much! I just completed my research paper today. It turned out being 20 pages long!!

 

I actually think religion/spirituality SHOULD be in a school corriculum...not in a personal way, though.

I think it would be a good thing for kids in school to learn all about as many different religions and kinds of religions as possible, kind of the same way we all learn about history.

It's a part of life, and ignoring it en masse is maybe partly the reason many people today are totally without any kind of spiritual connection to anything enlightening at all.

 

if the government is running the schools, there is absolutely no room for religious education, period. Besides, how many fundamentalists would ever teach from a non-biased point of view? So you get into the sticky mess of the government run schools saying certain people can't teach, basically discriminating against them because of their religious beliefs...

 

Bumble Good for you! If you want, I'd love to read it. (I always read my kid's papers, and usually keep my opinions to myself, I promise. ) PM me, if you like, and I will give you my e mail addy to send it. But, only if you want to and have the time. If not, it is no big deal.

Boogiemama has a really great point. Neither religious zealots nor athiests could teach, as neither could be fair. WHO would teach these classes?

Save it for college, and then only as an elective.

 

1- Do you think religion/spirituality belongs in a school curriculum? Why?
Perhaps to students, who are interested in such things, but I don't think it should be mandatory for anyone. Religion played a big part in our history course last year, but it wasn't like they wanted us to convert. Religion plays a big part history and the present and needs to be aknowleged.

2- Do you think students who are in these schools/curriculums are above or below students who receive schooling without religion/spirituality?
Not at all. I know Catholic schoolers who are downright stupid, and Aetheist/agnostic types, who borderline genius. Like wise I've seen wicked smart religious people and totally ignorant Aetheists. But in the end we're all equal.

3-Please share any experiences if you’d like if you have or had children in any curriculum that has any religious or spiritual aspect.
I've met tons of kids that were in Catholic school or are in Catholic school. Most of them are relatively normal aetheists, but that's just the thing, they aren't any sort of religion, they ignore it and complain about how much uniforms suck.