They need us, we dont need them

The people who own your place of work need you. You dont need them.
The people that own the place you work buy the equipment that enables you to do your job, and you sell them your time on this earth. They buy your ability to work and more importantly they buy your time on this planet.
Their money buys YOUR skills and YOUR time
You are profitable - without you there would be no profits to put in the bank

A rich man can afford to buy a fighter plane which costs 500 million dollars
but its an army of people he needs to build that plane. That man who pays you to build that plane. He is the one that sells that plane. he is the one that needs that plane - what do you need a fighter plane for? If you need that fighter plane to make money for yourself then why do you need the rich man?
you already have the skills he needs to buy
cut out the middle man - cut out the capitalist
its the capitalist that needs the fighter plane - not you. yes he pays you but
then why dont you take his money, build the plane, get rid of him, and keep his plane making business and convert it to a civil airline company
that way you stop war and make more profit for yourself
you will then cut out the man that exploits your time for his profit and make your time your profit

There is nothing a capitalist likes more than his own ability to exploit your talent
get real exploit your own talent and kill his bank balance
capitalists are warmongers and exploiters - dont work for them they think your talent and your life is cheap - dont be bought by them like a slave - be a human

for every one of you on $20,000 a year the capitalist makes $120,000 after he has paid you
REORGANISE and lets have a friendlier and more honest society

 

too bad it's easier to work for someone else and do what they tell you to. too bad people have to survive and in this world hospitality is always expected to be paid for. too bad nobody has the capacity to love a stranger and take care of them simply because they're human, so we all have to struggle to make sure we'll still be alive tomorrow.

 

If we want to stop this shit we need to get more organised. People are Power not money..

 

That is true and therefore there are two difficult ways to go - 1)become a capitalist yourself and throw off their exploitation in order to become an exploiter
2) do away with the exploiter and create honest companies that reward and co-operate with more fairly - a co-operative of workers rather than a hierarchy

or 3) take the easy way out and continually be exploited for and rewarded with much much less than you are worth

That is right and its not just ourselves we should think of - your supermaket exploits people picking fruit and coffee beans at the rate of $0.10 per day !!!!!
you buy that coffee for maybe $5 or $6 a jar that makes each coffee bean picker worth several hundred 1000 a year to capitalism - yet they keep them poor and hungry to pay them.

One thing these capitalists dont do is to crap on their own doorstep - no they go to poor continents to do that - there they make 100,000% profit on each worker while here they make only %500 or %600

the figures are not exact but its an entirely correct argument

capitalism is taking a fight standing - we need to make it run away
the only help we can give ourselves is to show that the people are willing to battle against the opressor - global solidarity !

 

The trick is to work for a "man" that has integrity and looks after his employees, not a centerless corporation that only feeds on it's bottomline.

And I don't think a single individual can build an airplane solely on their own. I know I couldn't. Cooperatives have problems you wouldn't believe. It's like building something by committee.

 

Exactly - but the point being - who needs a warplane - war is an invention designed to sell war machinery. Mankind really isnt a warlike being anymore. These neanderthal warmongers merely promote war to sell war machinery. If you dont like war take it out of the hands of capitalists and governments and put the machinery to good use in a civillian way - BTW it wouldnt be very ecological to turn it into a civilian aircraft industry either -
so perhaps just getting rid of the capitalist while plotting what to do with the machinery when in charge of it would be the best way

 

Yes, to become independant of these large multinational corperations, we need to have some serious organization. We'll be completely self-sufficient in every aspect. Although what we produce will be nowhere near the quantity, or quality of our multinational counterparts. We do need them, and it sucks, but it's our fault. They wouldn't be multinational if people hadn't flocked to them. A sad truth.

 

I agree but the truth neednt become despair - we made the situation - we can unmake it and become something better
That is the very essence and whole point of everything I try to say
Dont despair become the change

 

It would depend on your job. i know my job needs me. when i worked at a grocery store when i was young, i needed my job, i was a dime a dozen cheap labor.

Make yourself unique and valuable if you dont want to get pushed around as much.

 

Yes but the point being that the minute they dont need you - its goodbye ! If you think about things more you can create your own wealth but while doing that dont be like them - be more ethical and honest and make sure the unethical traders are put out of business.
Its their laws that define the script you have to work to - but I dont think society owes capitalism anything - a more ethical brand of boss is needed - one who shares the profits more equally with those they exploit.

The co-operative rather than the corporate

As for the corporations - they should be taught a lesson in good social integrity and pay the ones they exploit better but that means YOU and I will have to accept less comfort and wealth- well I can do that so long as the corporate bosses accept a lot less - and if they dont then your superior morals should demand laws that would oust such exploiters from their authority and if that doesnt happen - then throw thenm out of authority by force - the world is demanding capitalism have more integrity but the capitalists arent listening.
3% of the people in the west own 80% of the wealth by which I mean the materials and the money

Those advocating a more equal society have fought for 50 years to say these things - have pressed a case for 50 years and not one thing altered - nothing ! nothing that altered the essential cxapitalist value of greed.
Well 50 years is too long and now action speaks louder than words

 

Actually, people did not flock to them, multinational corporations flock to people. Advertising does wonders. Corporations need people as consumers more than people need them.

Humans are naturally self-sufficient but it is in the interest of the system people not become self-sufficient.

 

Actually many things were accomplished at one time. Unions fought for workers rights and safety, Nader organized consumer opinion, Social Security, MediCare/Caid, misc. safety nets and social programs like Head Start. Things did change.

But starting with Reagan the world started to only consider their own bottomline. And they voted for deregulation, welfare reform, bankruptsy, workers comp reforms, HMOs, privatization of prisons and military support, etc. everyone voted for them because they were supposed to save them money and make them rich. A few did get rich. Can you name them? Who lost out? You personally know more people that lost out, than you know of those that became rich. But you continue to vote for their schemes.

 

This is kind of a laugh.

 

Greed is one thing but power is also why people in goverment do things.
The reason why is because goverment is only thinking of rich people
they need poor people to work in there shops and offices. If they made laws which made people more free and make it equal for rich and poor then they would not be able to force people to work for them. By making people poorer they make people need them more
by saving people money on taxes they make them spend more on private health and things

 

technically......they ARE us

 

Actually - technichally whoever is being called "they" look more to me like those rich enough to succeed in politics and the very people who control industry and its corporations.

Technically we are "us" and they are "them" - we are beanpickers and they are industrial giants

 

Can someone delete this please?

 

So...you'd suggest what? Socialism?
So, they need me more than I need them. That's fine. I can see that, but I still need them, or at least, I need someone. I need money in order to buy food. So I need a job, and I need a shop that sells food.
Of course, it could be suggested that I should become self sufficient, ignoring a lot of the problems I'd have in acheiving this, i.e. lack of space and land, lack of starting resources there's the simple fact that I'd have no idea HOW to do such a thing.

We might be the 'beanpickers' but if WE don't pick the beans then no-one will, and we'll all starve.

 

No I just advocate the dismantling of the state so that people can decide for themselves what they want. At is most extreme I merely advocate that capitalism should collapse - I dont see myself as advocating anything beyond that - I would be willing to take part in a debate about responsible society after that, a debate that governments seem unwilling to participate in. They dont listen to the people - and havent for 6 decades. Lets face it they havent listened to anyone for 200 years (except for the odd revolution here and there) Why should anyone now take their word that capitalism can transform itself?
If the people dont want their police states the people wont have them! Thats what I'm saying - they are there because we allow them to be there - other than that they are powerless - compliance is co-operation in all their efforts to kill a planet and control its population while doing that. I believe that anyone with sense will realise this is a post industrial society and centralised government from the top down approach is merely a dinosaur of a concept that is nearly extinct

IF - repeat IF I advocated anything more it would merely be to say that I would offer a solution in the form of communal politics that informs the top from the ground up - not the top down

And what group of beanpickers need a middleman when they already own the food and have the skills to harvest it? It only takes a small effort to realise that your supermarket charges £1 for a product that the beanpickers just get £0.00001
for and the middleman takes the rest - what group of supermarket employees need a board of directors that each take £4million a year while the shelf stacker does more good for the company and yet gets only 8000 a year? these people can do the job of the directors and still run a company

Its not just workers and badly paid people and the unemployed who are anticapitalist - also some businessmen who have more morals than greed are joining them

 

This is hilarious. Profit margins on supermarkets aren't particularly high.