do we have free will

Discussion in 'U.K.' started by lithium, Jan 6, 2007.

  1. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    Messages:
    10,028
    Likes Received:
    17
    I find it hard to struggle with the idea that we may not have free will. But at the same time I can't see a way that we can. Everything we think and everything we do is a result of causative processes. Every effect has a cause, every cause has a consequence. Everything everyone else says and does is also a consequence of these causative processes. When we react to a caused event, we react according to processes which are ultimately knowable.

    I think of it like chaos - miniscule alterations in input can lead to huge differences in output, even though the governing equation is known. The massive variability of this gives an incredibly realistic illusion of having free choice. But if you had a supercomputer capable of processing the billions upon billions of billions of variables in every atom from the beginning of time, we could in theory predict every interaction of energy and matter in the whole of existence. Meaning the whole of time is fundamentally predetermined, but in so complex a way that it is impossible to unravel.

    Is free will just a complex illusion?

    What do you think?:eek:
     
  2. Zajko

    Zajko Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    1
    I like to think that my choices are governed by my intelligence, which is a small part of the vast intelligence with which the entire universe operates, that this intelligence of mine that makes choices so freely works within the same logic that governs the universe as a whole. This does imply that my choices are part and parcel of the causal unfolding of the universe in a deterministic sense, but I fail to see how it makes them any less free - I am simply a small part of a free and intelligent universe acting freely (and hopefully intelligently) on my own. On the other hand, if my choices were not part of the logic of the universe, but were the result of some random outside influence - they would have no intelligence to them and I would not consider them free at all!

    So, to me free choice can only exist in a deterministic universe.

    Incidentally, Chaos theory also tells us that the smallest and most efficient possible computer capable of predicting the behavior of the universe is the universe itself - any other supercomputer that could be set up to predict the future with perfect accuracy would be struggling to make predictions of events long after they happened in the "real" world - so even in a deterministic universe we are acting unpredictably as well as freely. Our choices may seem unintelligent at times but we are evolving as fast as we can
     
  3. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    Messages:
    10,028
    Likes Received:
    17
    "The causal unfolding of the universe" is a good phrase - if that is the case (and I can't see how it can't be) then by definition there is no such thing as individual free will. Our choices are governed by our intelligence, but our intelligence is entirely the product of biochemical processes, each of which has a physical cause which can in theory be traced right back to the big bang.

    Good point about the chaos theory supercomputer thing - but the fact that it may be practically impossible to make predictions, does not change the fact that since there is no such thing as a supra-causative agent, there can be no such thing as free will. We are acting unpredictably, but not freely...
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice