Is all physical punishment abusive ?????

Not all physical punishment is "smacking"





I originally posted this in All in the Family, and it was in response to an article about parents "smacking" their children. There were many responses , and every parent said they would never use any physical punishment to discipline their children. I wrote the following, but got no feedback at all. What do you think?

I definitely don't believe in "smacking", but had occasion with our five daughters, in their very young years, to give them tangible reminders to listen to my words, and do what I say. I found this important to insure their safety as they were growing up. When I said they should not go near the busy street, and they did, I would give them a consequence that was uncomfortable enough to make them think twice about venturing into the street again. If we were in a crowd, I wanted them to stay close, if I said so. I didn't ever discipline anyone in public, and found that once they knew that they could be punished for willfull disobedience, infractions of my rules seldom occured. If I told them to stay somewhere, or go somewhere, to ensure their safety, and they didn't respond properly, I would consider physical punishment to teach them to "listen to my words". I would have been so afraid to take them in the world of danger, if I hadn't been sure that they took me seriously. I have seen children who don't listen to their parents, and I would not want to be in that circumstance, when it came to their safety. I don't want to talk and talk and talk about things, and found a little physical discomfort was often all that was necessary to instill appropriate behavior. I considered it the ultimate act of love, in its many aspects, and they knew love came in many different forms, and were not traumatized by it at all.

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This was not "smacking", which seems more like frustated anger, and striking out. I talked about the actions,and talked about the consequences, and I know that not one of them felt abused. So, I guess I am saying that I think that not all physical punishment is completely unreasonable, or unwarranted.

 

I'm gonna hurl.


switch the circumstances around a little bit. Say it were a man, talking about disciplining his wife instead of a mother talking about her kids. Would it still be okay?

 

Well said MB

And "out of love" IMO, is BS. I don;t hit people that I love. Hitting itself, is not an act of love. One could not be hitting their child thinking, "I love you, I love you".

There are other ways to get kids to stay out of the street than physical violence.

I see any physical punishment as abuse.

 

i often say to my nephews who are 5-7 my oldest nephew JUST turned 7 .. My sis and i don't live in the same city ... So anyways i'll say to my nephews your hands are for helping and your words are for manners and they know off the bat that words are for conflict as well. If they argue all i have to say is "boys what do we have to do now " They say use our manners!! I think its always important to recognise that "Hands are for Helping & and your Mouth is for your Manners..

 

My parents used to smack* my brother & I; and I don't condone it. All the pain taught me was to fear my parents getting angry (hell it still scares me), I only truly learnt from the explanations and more postive ways to encourage behaviour modification.

We learnt from that example and hit each other at various points. So I can see how things escalate into domestic violence and such [there are so many parralells it's disturbing]. Obviously there is a diffrence between the odd swat and full blown abuse, but really it's not a road that we as a society want to go down.

My parents stand by their choices, because well it's not healthy to beat yourself up over the past, and at the time they didn't know any better. I can forgive them for that, but wouldn't if they hurt my own child because we know better now. I see it every day in the way we raise our puppy (using distractions, focusing on positives, time outs etc). He's not perfectly behaved all the time, that's an unreasonable expectation for anyone, but I figure if you can get a non-human to understand and learn without resorting to physical punishment then surely it's more than possible for humans too.

There are so many people who seem to think if you don't smack your children then you aren't disciplining them at all. Which is totally untrue. These people can manage without hitting their SOs, friends/colleagues, companion animals, other people's children ... so why the one exception?

*yeah you can rationalise it in the exact way you do, they do it all the time. But a hurting humiliated child isn't going to know any diffrent.

 

YES!!!!!

This has been discussed on this forum ad infinitum. There are myriad studies and research that proves that NO amount of hitting, small, large, light or hard is ever, in any way, beneficial to a child. Or to a parent child relationship.

Parents can and do parent without hitting. Some of us even parents very difficult to raise children without hitting. If ANY parent can successfully parent without hitting than ALL can. Hitting is lazy, mean, abusive, destructive and manipulative. It teaches the child NOTHING and only causes repression, fear, humiliation and teaches children to be good sneaks and good liars.

There LOTS of better ways to parent without physical violence. And yes "Smacking" "Spanking" "Wacking" and "a little tap on the butt" are ALL VIOLENT.

 

I remember my mom giving my baby brother some real bad spankings when I was younger, spankings that today would definitely fall under the catagory of abuse. I remember being bothered by the spankings up until my late teen years but even with that said, I still occasionally handed out spankings as a babysitter and to this day, my son has had several good and proper old-fashioned spankings. May I say however, nothing like the spankings my mom gave my baby brother.

 

I was spanked by my parents, and it's hard for me to think of it as abuse because that would mean my parents are abusive, and therefore mean that I was abused.

However, there were times when I certainly felt abused by my mother - she had a tendancy to fly off the hook and whale on me with whatever's in her hand (even flowers once). Unlike my mother, I don't think my dad ever had any bad intentions, but we would receive a swat for the "major offenses", which were lying, playing in the road, things like that.

It leaves me confused. As a child at times I felt abused by my mother, never by my father...and now I don't like thinking bad enough of my parents to think I was abused at all. They wern't bad parents.

Do I plan to discipline my child by spanking? No. I can see the negative effect it has had on me - I just can't consolidate it in my mind, it confuses me as to how I feel about my parents and childhood. I think there are better ways to discipline a child than hitting them. I think there are better ways to earn a child's respect than to use fear. Looking back on it, my dad had my respect without the "swats" - the worst form of punishment he could pull on me was the whole "I'm so disappointed in you" act, which would leave me bawling like a baby for quite a while.

I don't want my child to have to rationalize being hit by his parents like I have had to.

 

The fact that you're even posting this suggests that you're second-guessing your decision to use corporal punishment. This is a good thing. Corporal punishment goes against your instincts that tell you not to harm your children. LISTEN TO YOUR INSTINCTS. There is no reason to hit a child. Hitting is hitting is hitting. It's bad, regardless of the circumstances. Can you imagine how confusing it is for a child to be told "I hit (spank) you because I love you"? All hitting does it teach a child that it's ok to use physical force when you're in a position of power. I see any hitting to be a failure on the part of the parent to maintain control of their emotions and actually find a solution to the situation instead of lashing out.

And yes, I was beaten as a child. With hands, paddles, wooden spoons, plastic coathangers, and a leather belt. All it did was give me severe anger control issues that I'm still fighting. It didn't teach my why I did something wrong or what to do to correct the situation. It just taught me that my parents didn't love me enough to protect me from pain - instead they inflicted it.

 

I am appreciating everyones comments, and have been reading past posts from years gone by. I went on several websites to see what Christians, Buddhists, and others think of parenting with physical instruction. I am going to call my daughters tomorrow, and ask them about their childhood memories.? I will get back to here after some more consideration on the topic. Thanks for your feedback, and I appreciate that not all posters have said that my story made them feel like "throwing up", or that my opinion was "bullshit", or that I couldn't possibly be loving my children. I appreciate an honest discussion with a little compassion. I am a sensitive human being, with feelings. Thank you.!!!!!

 

abe, i'm sorry if i've hurt your feelings but if you didn't want those kind of answers then you should have reworded your post. you asked a simple question and got honest answers. If you want a little sugar coating next time just be honest and ask for that this forum is full of people who don't hit their kids. honestly, what did you expect?

 

I'm sooo on the fence about this issue. I definitely feel it wrong to hit a child out of anger, no doubt about it. But I have to wonder if certain actions at certain times can be beneficial.

When I was about 4 years old, I got in the habit of pulling my little brother's hair. One time, my mom caught me doing it and immediately pulled my hair in response. I learned that it didn't feel good to pull hair and that I wouldn't like it done to me. I never pulled my little brother's hair again. And mom never pulled mine. There was another time where my little bro (who was and still is very accident prone) kept trying to put his hand on the stove. no matter how many times mom moved him, told him no, whatever, he still had that curiosity to reach up there. One time when he was reaching up to a hot stove while mom was there cooking, she gave his hand a quick smack and my bro didn't try to reach up there the rest of that day. Then there was the biting issues in which she bit back (not too hard, but hard enough to get your attention). The times that she would use a physical form of punishment, she tried to make sure it fit the crime and further explain to us why it's unacceptable. "You didn't like getting your hair pulled, did you? How do you think it feels for your brother when you pull his hair?" Other than examples like that, mom wasn't much for spanking. And she didn't really need to. Dad was a bit of a spanker, though. It only taught us to do bad things when he wasn't looking. Mom's approach taught us why the bad things we did were bad.

 

go ahead and flame me but I'm of the opinion that a slight burn would be a more valuable lesson then a swat. I'm not saying that I'd let my kid pull down a hot pot of water, but damn it if I've said it a hundred times and he's still not listening, then it's time for me to step back and let the kid touch the hot stove. His brain will do the rest.

I've been there with my middle kid with the biting and although I really wanted to bite her back, I just couldn't do it. I secretly wish beyond all wishing that her older sib would bite her a good one but I never once told her to do it. It took a lot of hard work on my part, but we all got through it unharmed. A lot of things in parenting are hard work and I see hitting (for any reason) to be taking the easy and less loving way out.

 

It's more than a slight burn. It's a second degree burn with a trip to the ER with another child in tow. It's trying to calm both of your children while the people in big white coats start messing with the blisters on your palm. I gotta say, that wasn't a fun visit for any of us. I can understand what you're trying to say, colorfulhippie, but with the grief it brought everyone when the burn occurred, I don't know if it's worthwhile to scar yoru child that way, mentally AND physically. Not to mention some might see that as neglect. damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess. It really is a tough issue.

 

i dunno, get a baby gate then? don't let the curious accident prone toddler in the kitchen when the stove's on?

i understand the damned if you do/don't and i swear i'm not trying to argue, i just think there are better ways to teach your kids important life lessons that are not violent <shrug>

 

Can I just say, completely OT here, that I love each and every one of you mommies and daddies? Seriously. It's so nice to see communities such as this one - full of loving dedicated parents, interested in researching and arguing for children's rights in order to strive for more functional, happy, healthy adults down the road. You're doing great, as I hope your kids and loved ones tell you every day.

 

aww, thanks humblebee, that's sweet.... and i totally agree with you

abe, i really do apologize for hurting your feelings. this is just a subject i'm passionate about and i'm always short on time so i don't always think it through very well.

i've got to say though, that i totally respect you for looking into your past parenting and continuing to learn and grow as a human i can only hope i care enough when my kids are older.


peace be with you as you strive to find your answer.

 

As a child who was spanked in small moderation as a child, I honestly can say that when I have kids, there's a fair chance that I might use spanking as well.

I have no bad memories about it. In fact, I think my brother and I could count on one hand the amount of times we were spanked. After that, we learned and my parents used snapping a belt or pretending to fish a paddle out of a drawer to stop us in our tracks.

My brother and I have grown up to be very well adjusted adults and successful at this stage of our lives. I don't think a handful of spankings when we really deserved them hurt us in the slightest. It's unfair for any mother to say another mother who uses spanking sparingly is a bad mother or cruel to her children. Yes, there is a fine line where it can be crossed into abuse and that needs to be paid a very close attention to, but not every spanking is anywhere near abuse. For some parents on here who are so angry by others criticizing your parenting, you all are extremely critical of others.

Also, saying that a swat is worse than a child getting burned is appalling to me. As someone who manages to get burned EXTREMELY easily (spend a lot of time in the kitchen and super accident prone), I have tons of scars on my hands and stomach from barely brushing a hot surface. I can only imagine how badly that could hurt a child. When babysitting my cousin recently, I did smack her hand when she reached up toward a cookie sheet that had just come out of the oven. It certainly wasn't enough to hurt her, just to shock her, but it's nothing compared to what would have happened had she touched it. I have a scar across my stomach so bad from my shirt lifting up while reaching across a cookie sheet that doctors have thought I had major surgery in the area- and that was something I did as a 16 year old and barely touched it. I can only imagine what that would do to a little child's hand. After I reprimanded her, I showed her the scar and she realized what touching a hot thing can do (she was 4 at the time). I'd hit my child any day over letting them get burned.

 

perhaps your definition of abuse is not the same as mine. I believe it is abuse whenever anyone uses violence or threats to control the behavior of another person. "A person's a person no matter how small" and all people deserve to be treated with respect. It is not respectful of children to hit them, ever. It doesn't teach them to recognize right from wrong, it only teaches them fear.

 

I think that when a mother is an on-hands mother who uses her hands often to express approval with hugs, kisses, and cuddling, she can also use her hands to show disapproval, with hand smacks and an occasional swat on the bottom, and to a young child this is all in the course of touching and teaching, and because the child allready trusts that the mother loves him or her, they know in their hearts that this "physical instruction" is not a lack of love, but another aspect of her love, and is necessary to keep them out of danger, and to encourage them to take seriously that the mothers words are important for them to obey, for their safety and well being.

I never approve of "hitting" which seems to be the word of choice for those who want to convey violent use of the hands, and I think, is different than what I choose to call "physical instruction", which is not done with anger, but with the desire to teach. Words are not always effective in small children, who are pre-verbal, and words are also not effective when children learn or feel somehow that they can do what they want, when they want. You can talk all day and debate everything with your small child, and then both you and the child are frustrated because they aren't listening or understanding the importance of your words, and you are spending an inordinate amount of time explaining yourself again and again. This turns into chaos and confusion, which no one benefits from.

Also, with the idea that an experience with a hot stove will teach young children to stay away from burners, then would a pot of hot water spilled be a good way to teach you not to reach up to the stovetop, and would crawling out into traffic and getting hit by a car teach a small child to stay out of the road.????? Words would also be ineffective at this stage, and perhaps only remembering an unpleasant experience ( the before mentioned physical instruction ),would get the point across without having to experience for themselves the greater and more destructive pain of a burn, splash, or car accident.

I adamantly disapprove of hitting, smacking, or beating any child of any age in anger, and hope we as parents can restrain ourselves from this kind of "abuse", and seek a balance where we respectfully show our children the path to becoming a positive plus in the world, without taking any of their original goodness or innocence from them. Parenting is the most difficult job and the most important one we will ever do, and such a responsibility, and I know we will always have things to disagree on , but I am sure all of us who love our children, are doing the best we can, or are working hard to become better parents. .