Codependency/Fear of Intimacy

I've posted on this subject before, and reading "Fear of Intimacy" made me want to post on it again (great thread!)

I think I am probably codependent, and that makes me REALLY REALLY ashamed. It sounds so much like a nasty disease, and other people who think/know you have it treat you as though you have a nasty disease. Very stigmatizing.

But in a sense, aren't we ALL a little codependent? Codependency sounds a lot more like emotional Pavlovian conditioning: learning from experience to expect a particular outcome, whether or not that outcome actually happens.

And there is so little help out there. Once other people start thinking someone is codependent, they tend to ostracize or patronize him or her for having this "social disease".
Counselors tend to do the same thing -- they focus narrowly on this one particular problem and can't see outside it.

So where is someone to go when there is not much constructive help to be found? Where can someone learn outside of their experiences when their experiences dictate what is going to happen next?

(PS: I'll post more of my ideas on this, but one by one. Don't want to hit you with them all at once )

(PPS: I am SO ashamed of myself for having this disease ... you have no idea!)

 

It's not your fault. You will get past it. Recognizing it is the first step. Talking to my father about it helped me more than anything else. Talking to my mother only makes things worse (still). But you do need to come to grips with your relationship with your parents, whatever that might be. I don't know anyone who is or was codependent who didn't have parents with a highly disfunctional relationship. No, we aren't all codependent, just like we didn't all have a miserable childhood, but it's hard to believe that sometimes. If our parents didn't model for us what a healthy relationship looks like, it's really hard to learn how to have one ourselves, or to even recognize when a relationship we are in is not healthy.For me, realizing there was a difference between love and need made all the difference in the world. I'm still not sure if my ex-husband really loved me, or if he just needed me. I'm fairly certain that I did love him to a degree, but mostly I needed him to need me. I broke free of the cycle of abuse in my life when my father was dying and apologized for my childhood. It's not ever easy, though, and it's a pattern I catch myself falling into when I react to certain things without thinking first.

there is a difference between someone who is codependent and someone who is toxic. Often the two go hand-in-hand, though. It is in everyone's best interest to avoid interaction with toxic people. We have to look out for number one.

 

Yeah, most people immediately assume that codependency equals toxicity, when often it does not ... in my experience, being treated as though one is toxic will actually MAKE a codependent toxic. (Happened to me for a while!)

Love and need ... yeah. Most people confuse the two.
It's odd, I'm a codependent but I know the difference. I've had people NEED me and I hate it, and thus try to avoid needing other people. It usually works ... but when they leave it still makes me feel like hell. As though it is all my fault.

My mom is also hard to talk to ... and my father doesn't know me, so he always treats me as if I am stupid and have had no practical life experiences whatsoever. (Very offensive.) But yes ... it does help a lot to talk to people ...

 

Suncatch - give us some examples of your codependancy = that might help us analyze your problem. We all have needs in a relationship, sometimes similar ones, sometimes different ones, and we all have to adjust to the other's needs. Where it becomes messy is when one party's needs overwhelm the relationship and smother the other party's independence.
We all need our own space and time alone or with long time friends. If one party to a relationship wants the other to give up all their old friends and only have friends acceptable to both parties, that can be a problem. Am I on the right track?

 

I think the word co-dependency sounds like a good word, like you are a team or are working together on something, and I like the thought that two people can depend on each other, and need each other to depend on. Maybe I,too, don't know what you mean by codependency, I know it is a word you hear frequently these days, but I think it means different things to different people. Please explain.

 

A super-simplified explanation: Co-dependency means to most people that one person is reliant on others for his or her sense of self.

My codependency is not THAT bad, Cutted, sheesh! I'm really laissez-faire about what other people do with their lives -- who they want to be friends with is their choice.
Please do not suggest that I am a controlling bitch. Please.

It's too complex to explain here, really, but I kind of base my opinion of myself on others' opinions of me.
Whenever someone thinks I am a bad person, I start to think I'm a bad person too. For example, a shop clerk thought last week that I was stealing when I wasn't, and I literally didn't go outside for three days because I was worried I really WAS a bad person and just didn't know it!
And when my last boyfriend rejected me for another girl, I honestly started doubting my worth as a human being because I am not as pretty as she is. I now have trouble accepting people's kindness because I never know if their motives are good or if they're just going to change their minds when they meet a prettier girl.
But I would never forbid someone from meeting a prettier girl, or whatever. I would just feel bad for them because they were trapped with an ugly girl (me), and ergo wind up ending the relationship, then hating myself for not being good enough.

Basically, a psychiatrist would say I fear rejection because my father left my mother when he found out she was pregnant with me, and my family life was REALLY dysfunctional. And now I have deep self-image issues and fear rejection so deeply that I cause my own rejections.

Anyway. Back to the rest of you.

 

You don't sound co-dependent to me co-dependent people have no idea and are not aware of their actions. You have a knowledge that you have problems when it comes to relationship and that is a really good thing because most people deny those problems. You are also taking steps in the right direction talking about the problems that you have and looking into making changes in those areas. It is very impressive to see a young woman so open and willing to make the necessary changes in her life.

 

I personally think that this whole business of 'co-dependency' is a bunch of Twenty First Century Mumbo Jumbo. I firmly believe that the members of the human race were designed to be dependent on each other and to need each other. We were made that way physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

However, we have been led to believe, very recently, in fact, by 'experts' in psychology, that we as humans beings should be perfectly happy locked away by ourselves in one-bedroom apartments, and if we're not, we're either 'co-dependent' 'clinically depressed', or God knows what other lofty sounding illness we might have contracted. As far as I'm concerned, this is one of the biggest Crocks of Shit that the human race has been fed (and to a large degree, swallowed) in recent decades.

To me, people that live in more traditional cultures where it is accepted as a given that people are to find emotional support and sustenance in their families and from their spouses are much more well-adjusted and happy than we are. I had a very famous uncle who was a doctor, an American, that went to a third world country and helped build the health system there. He remarked one time that they didn't need too many psychiatrists in that country because, for the most part, they had stable families. Bingo.

 

That is very true that people do need each other. BUT there is a point when the need for suport over powers all other aspects that is what co-dependency is. When a person has to have the aproval of someone before they make any decisions or do anything they are dependent on a specific person to make their life decisions for them. A codependent person when in a relationship does everything their partner wants no matter what and when the relationship ends there are severe repurcations for the codependent person they become depressed and cant function.

 

If a person does whatever their partner wants 'no matter what' then they're not engaging in a relationship that's based on mutual love. I'm not so sure that falls under the category of 'co-dependence', though. Also, it is perfectly frigging normal for a person to become very depressed when a serious, intimate relationship with another person ends. And please, it's 'repercussions', not 'repurcations'....

 

Suncatch - don't sell yourself short - you are pretty, and very smart as well. And as I said before, most guys like girls who can be friends as well as lovers, and you have that ability.

I checked out the article on fear of intimacy. and understand where you are going with this. Some people can only determine their self worth based on what others think of them, or what the person thinks others think of them. Part of that is just being a teenager, an age when your personality and body are not fully formed and you naturally seek affirmation as to who you are from your peers.

As you grow older, and have some success in life, your self worth is determined more by your own perception of your self rather than what others think of you. As lawyer, if I based my opinion of my self worth on what my adversaries thought of me, I would not be a good lawyer. They are paid to be an advocate against me and my client. My girlfriend says I have a very positive self image, and that may be due in part to my good childhood and parents who were good, stable people. Your childhood from what you say, was difficult, but a lot of people had the same type upbringing problems and recovered well. I think you are strong enough to put that behind you. And as someone else said, your ability to recognize your problems is a major sterp in dealing with them.

 

DQ -- Welcome back! And thanks

Chick -- Good points. Thank you as well.

FYI: I am already over my childhood. Seriously. I got over it when my mom disowned me last year. No one to seek approval from! Hooray!
But apparently some people think that new situations in my current life are bringing up old ghosts.
I don't care what you think.

That's the thing. I have NEVER cared what other people have thought. I have never HAD peers -- only other people in my age group. And because I've always been more mature than other kids my age (because I was raised with adults and am somewhat of a savant) I've never really placed much value on my "peers."
I only care about the opinions of people I care about, like that boyfriend -- and about people who could put me in jail, like that clerk

That being said, I do care that people have an accurate representation of me -- and Cutted, I really don't think you do. You seem to think I am a naive, silly, airheaded young tramp who constantly seeks approval from the Freudian specters of my life, from boys (you think) I promiscuously sleep with, and from the other silly fools who are physically my age.
I'm not and I don't. Other nineteen year old girls might be stupid but I'm not. I don't need approval from my daddy, from asshole abusers (unless they were already involved with me ), or from silly primping bitches. Please give me some credit.

 

You sound condescending toward your peers. Not an attractive quality. Also a savant would not be in your boat. You are hear looking for help for many different problems that a savant would not find so puzzling. Don't get me wrong, I still like you. Just thought that you might wanna work on this a little bit. Might even help you in your next relationship.

 

Suncatch - that last one was a real rant. I agree with the poster just above.

 

codependent people think they can or should be in control of another person's behavior, or are the one being controlled by another person (usually they do not recognize this until after the relationship is over). It takes two to be codependent. Often, the one in control is also being controlled in different ways by the other. Abusive relationships are codependency to the extreme. Alcohol and drugs are an excuse codependents like to use for their behavior, they never own their actions, it's always someone else's fault, or because they were drunk, or whatever. Partners of codependents like that often make up excuses, too, thus enabling the addict to continue the abusive behavior.... Codependents think they can make someone happy, or they think the right person can make them happy. Fairy tales where the pitiful princess must be saved from her evil step-mother by Prince Charming illustrate codependency at its finest. She's afraid to be alone because she is defined by the people around her rather than herself.

((((Suncatch)))) All i know about you is what you posted about that poet you were involved with. That certainly appeared to be a codependent relationship to me, and it was so much like my first marriage... Finding someone you can talk with, who won't give you advice or tell you what they think, someone who will just listen to what you have to say, would probably really help you sort through these feelings. You are getting better already! Sometimes the healing process really hurts, but you are healing. Sometimes you gotta lance open the wounds to get the poison out and prevent it from festering and growing inside you.

 

Many people do not realize that co-dependency is an addictive process -- a disease just like any other addiction. Co-dependency can be described as a dysfunctional pattern of living in which one overreacts to things going on outside of oneself and under reacts to what is going on inside. It involves compulsive behaviors and dependence upon approval from others in order to achieve a sense of safety, identity and self-esteem. Co-dependents put all their efforts into those around them, neglecting to fully take care of themselves, especially emotionally. Co-dependency is a disease that, if left untreated, can lead to other addictions such as eating disorders, substance dependence, workaholism and compulsive spending.

Charactersistics of Co-Dependency

Some of the characteristics of co-dependent people include:

* Positive feelings about themselves stem from being liked and accepted by others.
* Mental attention is focused on solving the problems of others or relieving their pain, and when these goals are accomplished, their self-esteem rises.
* Co-dependents tend to personalize all that happens around them, seeing everything as being directly related to them.
* Unless they are externally validated, they have difficulty trusting their own perceptions.
* Significant others' clothing, personal appearance and behavior are dictated by the co-dependent, as he or she feels that the significant other is a reflection of him or her.
* Co-dependents have unrealistic expectations of themselves, are unable to accept their own limitations, and use control and manipulation to avoid facing reality.
* They view themselves as failures when they cannot control everything or meet everyone's expectations.
* They fear rejection and abandonment, so they feel they must be involved and needed in every aspect of the lives of others. Not to be involved and needed equals abandonment.
* Co-dependents are not aware of how they feel; they are aware of how others feel. Co-dependents are not aware of what they want; they ask what others want. If they are not aware, they assume.
* Social circles diminish as they become more involved in their disease.

This list is not all-inclusive; there are other behaviors that are co-dependent in nature. Co-dependents are very focused on others, yet at the same time they feel what goes on around them is related to them in some way.



- It does not take two to be codependent or to be in a codependent relationship.

-dq veg no need to be an ass over a spelling error. When codependents go through when a realtionship ends is not like what most people go throuhg. Yea it is normal for a person to be upset and get sad and even depressed but a codependent person takes it much further.

 

-dq veg no need to be an ass over a spelling error. When codependents go through when a realtionship ends is not like what most people go throuhg. Yea it is normal for a person to be upset and get sad and even depressed but a codependent person takes it much further.[/QUOTE]

if your gonna write at least get it right!!
i think i'm have some of the issues you mentioned in your post somechickyoudon'tknow, i've had eating problums and drug/drink problums but i've had theropy for them. also, i've got abandonment issues too caused by some of the things i've had growing up in my childhood, but i think its made me a much stronger person for what i've gone thrue.

its shaped me in to the person i am today

 

if your gonna write at least get it right!!
i think i'm have some of the issues you mentioned in your post somechickyoudon'tknow, i've had eating problums and drug/drink problums but i've had theropy for them. also, i've got abandonment issues too caused by some of the things i've had growing up in my childhood, but i think its made me a much stronger person for what i've gone thrue.

its shaped me in to the person i am today[/QUOTE]what?

 

wow that is probably your biggest problem right there! Sorry I wont interfere with this discussion any more, but that just blew my mind

 

I didn't mean to come across as condescending. I do NOT think I'm superior to anyone, I just don't care what other people my age think because I am nothing like them. I have nothing in common with them, so unlike most young people I am not constantly grappling to be accepted by people I know will never accept me.

Also, savants are unfortunately bright but often have little common sense. That is me, or so I have been told.
I think I am very stupid. Obviously, as evidenced here.

When I am close to someone I always treat them as though they are better than I am, because I feel they are.