Was Hiv engineered ?

The tinfoil hat brigade strikes again! You both just proved my point, you have nothing to offer the thread, so just derail it right? Try staying on topic just once. my apology's to the orignal poster, was not my intention to get off topic,only to clarify "lenny's" fear mongering .

 

You don't have a point to prove. But you did just prove my point.

 

I do believe it was rat who began the insulting and you joined in to fuel the fire.

 

Isolated incidences of AIDS afliction are felt to date back to 1968.

 

"the evil that men do", is indeed done. just more often ironicly by those inteding to do good, then those who set out to do it. i mean, we've all met someone or someseveral, who straight up admitted, even bragged about, having at one time or another intending to do some kind of harm. and people getting togather to do so, is no more uncommon then people getting togather to do anything else. yet STILL, more harm ends up getting done by those who did NOT set out to cause it. usualy by failing to do their homework. usualy because of having some belief that told them it could take the place of doing so and they wouldn't have to. but sometimes, you know the old bit about best laid plans and all that. sometimes it foils the good outcome. sometimes it foils the bad. and it really is pretty impartial about doing both.

and i don't for a moment deny the existence of those who feel they have a vested intrest in the existence of sexualy transmitted diseases, and or those that can be transmitted that way. i just think it's good to bear in mind, this ISN'T the only, or even most common, way, in which such things happen.

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There are other explanations as well which point to accidental spread of SIV into humans and mutation in HIV. In a lab, via bush meat...

On the other hand, there HAS been a documented effort by the USA govt to suppress any political progress in Africa. They infiltrated EVERY radical group in the 70's...Zambia was crawling with CIA trying to stop the ANC as well as others who "threatened" USA "interests". To get at the massive mineral wealth of Shaba (eastern province of Congo) they will do anything. The idea that they would engineer the disappearance of much of the African population is not far-fetched. Look what they've done to the African population already in the past few centuries.

But even the mad politics is often just bad policy run amok. We give them too much credit in thinking they're intricately manipulating everything. They are bumblers quite often. French, Belgian and USA bumbling led to the genocidal slaughters in Rwanda and Burundi, but can we say that all of that was specifically engineered? Or in Sierra Leone or Liberia?

Look at the GW Bush Administration. If they're so clever with their machinations, why are they now in the mess they're in? They've handed the Congress and probably the White House to the Democrats. The public is completely sour on the Iraq "war". Where is the cleverness in this?

At the deep levels, the corporations who own the planet are in fact very clever at their general manipulations of social directions. But as for the details, the schemings and fumblings of individual governments, it is a bunch of hubris-ridden myopic monkeys drunk on their own power. Such types inevitably crash and burn.

If you force me to choose, I cannot frankly with confidence assert currently that HIV was or wasn't engineered, or intentionally introduced. But as with all "conspiracies" I want to see good evidence. I think the evidence is clear that something is up with all the assassinations, that corporations massively manipulate public culture and consciousness and so on, but given the documented failure of humans to successfully manipulate nature without drastic results I can see as much evidence suggesting that HIV was an accidental debacle or even a natural occurrance as that it was an evil plan.

 

Soon after this disease hit the mainstream, I read an article somewhere that said that the AIDS virus was engineered in South Africa.

In those days, you recall SA was a racist system.

The theory was this virus was created to act only on blacks, as they resembled the apes (from whom this virus came from) more than white people do. It was to be a means of black population control that would eventually bring the numbers down to a more manageable level.

Turns out, it was equally effective on white people too. Something they found out a little too late. Somehow, it got out of the lab and into the population and took off like wildfire.



x

 

HIV was spread in Hepatitis B vaccinations given to homosexual men in government clinics between the years 1978 and 1981 in Manhatten, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Denver, as well as in Africa by the World Health Organization. Yes, it was designed as a weapon, and if you actually READ the Kissinger documents from '69, which are included in Horowitz's book, you will see this. It wasn't some mistake that just went out of control. It was completely deliberate. It was engineered by the US military-industrial complex as a bio weapon, as was Lyme disease (as has been admitted), Legionnaires disease, and a slew of others.

 

Does anyone here remember when it hit the news? It was 1981, I remember it well. There was a panic about the air then - you didn't even dare to get into a hot tub anymore with anyone. And it took quite a few years for the fears to dissapate. And this was in open minded southern California.

 

It hit well before 81, but since it was consintratedarty: in the Gay community, the faithful figured it was a penance from God. This added several years to the inaction of government to address the issue.
Though it's a Gr8 example of how government manipulates the public. Most people did not die from AIDS, it was ARC, or some other smoke screen. They did such a good job, we still see their "affect" today.

 

hey matt

as a small side note, I saw Horowitz's book in a bookstore today for 10 dollars used and thought about picking it up.

I may return soon to get it..if I can find it, one of those typical bookstores that is packed to the ceiling with books and has em' all over the floor with no real rhyme or reason to organization. the girl who tried to help me find a carol quigley book even admitted that many of the sections were not organized alphabetically by author or title..so finding "emerging viruses" again may be tough a second time, seeing as it was by complete chance

But funny that it was the one book that really caught my eye than I come here and you mention it. Now I regret not buying it as the few pages I browsed through seemed to be real interesting.

You think it is worth the 10 bucks?

 

Yeah, or you could check your local library to see if they have it. Most libraries carry it.

 

yes it was engineered. no it was NOT engineered to be a weapon or means of causing suffering and harm, but as one of the avenues explored in persuing a particular means of extending life, some lives, at perhapse disproportional expense, and alieviating the suffering of those lives, by making it possible to successfully transplant vital internal organs by supressing the body's immune system's response of rejecting them.

THAT is the connection with its origen in the same place where research that eventually lead to successful organ transplants took place.

how it's been used and tinkered with since then, is another and seperate matter. but the intentions behind its origen were, to begin with benign.

just another little monster to have slipped out of our being too clever by half.

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Themnax,

Where are you getting this from, or are you just making it up? There is nobody in the government who wants to extend anyone's life or make life better for the average person. I don't think people who talk openly about culling off 75-90% of the world's population care about about extending anyone's life, except perhaps their own.

This is the first time I have ever heard this theory.

 

where am i getting it from? read the friggin (proffessional) medical journals (the kind you have to hang out in university libraries or be members of proffessional organizations to ever see. the're not 'classified' just hidden in plain sight by being esotericly proffessional and most people lacking interest or give a dam ness about such things) from arround the time how to successfully transplant human organs was being figgured out and put friggin two and two togather.

there were endless papers on engineering imune supressent agents including viruses, to facilitate transplanting!

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Pressed_Rat Is right to the extent that government researchers at the NIH are not motivated out of sheer benevolence to create immuno-suppressants


After getting in bed with the pharmaceutical lobby (and basically prostrating themselves) they’re only interest is in getting one of those high paying cushy private sector jobs after leaving the government.


Hotwater

 

I'm like so happy we are funding Stem Cell Research to funnel more
goverment subsidies to these guys.

Amusing how voters swallowed the theater of it all with Michael J. Fox and Christopher Reeve acting out the pathos.

 

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I think it was PRAVDA that said it was developed at Aberdeen Proving Grounds Base in Maryland.

A Big Gvmt germ lab is located on Plum Island off the eastern tip of Long Island, NY. Need a ferry to get there, top secret.

 

It is quite possible the DOD did something incompetent and let an experiment escape into the general population. The party lifestyle of the male homosexual in the 70s and 80s made a perfect vector for transmission.

There are also natural sanctions for abusing the body. I am more inclined to think immune system diseases like AIDS are the rusult of weakening ones immune system by doing stupid things like inhaling butyl nitrate with great frequency (it is not a good idea to inhale carcinogenic chemicals), mucho multiple anal sex partners (like an average of 530), way too much partying, sharing needles, and generally lighting the candle at both ends.

It was some party.

There are guys who took care of them selves and had sex with multiple partners and did not get the disease.

I was living in San Francisco before the plague hit and after the party ended. I remember when they were warning about french kissing as a possible transmission vehicle. I remember the kid who gave his bother aids by sharing a toothbrush. I had a friend in the cornoners office who told me 70% of the male dead bodies had the virus.

Then there is the Haitian boat lift scenario.