Real patriots fight tyranny not with words alone but action.

Dude, you're flipped plum out! Damn! You need to chill and take your ego down a notch or two. Ya act like somebody actually HURT you or something. Ever hear the saying that starts out "sticks and stones.............."

I said ya must be a Jew, because you got SO DAMN UPSET over THINKING Jews were being insulted. I would have said the same thing if the conversation were about ANYBODY. Yer too defensive and so it stands to reason you feel PERSONALLY insulted. Just an observation...

Anyhow, I think the folks in Pocahontas County would have better luck fighting those nincompoops than I would. Act LOCALLY. You have more effect.
http://calhoununderground.wordpress.com

Sincerely,
The "insult and shame to Appalachia"
arty:

 

Tyrrants never fight their wars themselves. If everyone else refused to get involved they wouldn't happen.

But they market to the masses, and the masses buy the sales pitch. It's as simple as that.

 

All you freaks have done is prove me correct in my evaluation of y'all. You're trend-following unconscious fools. You mock me for expressing concern over genocide expressions of racism by your fellow-traveler Source.

How ignorant you are. Look at your responses. Mostly your childish reactions rest on calling me a Jew. You are not very bright.

To call for the destruction of Israel is to advocate denying Jews a homeland. It is genocidal. The majority of Jews in Israel descend from those who fled another Holocaust about which you've heard little...one which was largely prevented by the existence of Israel to which they could flee. I am talking about the Jews who came to Israel from Arab countries.

To pretend you can't see that many in the world are bent on the utter destruction of the Jews, the push for a "Final Solution" did not end with the Allied victory over Germany.

Your responses indicate your deep level of ignorance and apathy. Your political involvement is nothing but a pose. You spew the clichés of the moment.

The inanity of most of you is one thing...however the overt evil of the originator of this thread is glaring and you all ignore it, therefore I can correctly point the finger at you and proclaim: HYPOCRITES! VIPERS! POSEURS! COMPLICITORS with Nazi EVIL! That is not hyperbole, that is apt description.

Sourceboy can't understand the big words but some of the rest of you can. Shame on you for pretending to ignore the moral imperative raised by this racist thread. You have to have already within you a deep inate racism, in this case against Jews, to react as you have done.

Shame on you!

 

Israel can have a homeland without displacing native arabs or calling for their anihilation. Who assasinated Rabin?

Shir LaShalom

 

Oh yes. That is precisely right. Israel must exist, and since it does, we must hold the Israelis accountable to the same human rights criteria we apply to all nations. Amen to that.

The Arabs are less "native" than Jews on that territory. But, of course, for us on earth now, the issue is not to endlessly argue "rights" and "right" by recourse to endless historical analysis. People are alive now on the earth and they all ought to be treated fairly. They should all be free. That is the dream, the same dream proclaimed by Communists and USA patriots and Zionists and Greens. In reality those proclaiming those philosophies have failed to live up to them, in every case, as is obvious from examining the histories of the USSR, the USA and Israel, among all the other examples (as many examples as there are nations, unfortunately).

Once one accords the Israelis/Jews the right to exist as a nation, one need not be labeled "anti-Semitic" simply for criticizing the policies of the Israeli government. No government is rightly immune from such criticism. When one proceeds, however, to declaim every sin of the Israelis while saying nothing against any of the (all) fascist Arab governments, does also speak to some sort of prejudice.

If your politics includes an awareness of women's rights, and the suppression of such under imperialist patriarchal systems for millenia, then one has also to see the Muslim nations' governments as enemies. They are the largest and most intensely unifed and fanatic force AGAINST women's freedom worldwide. There has historically been a similar institutionalized misogyny manifest in the Catholic and other Christian Churches, but in the 21st century Islam far outstrips any other force or philosophy in keeping women down.

Back to Israel: if the world would insist that all participants in the mess there would peacefully cooperate to achieve a real solution NOW, maybe it would happen. As long as outside factions, such as historically the USSR, the UK and certainly the USA as well as every Arab and most Muslim nations, continue to meddle and manipulate the situation to their advantage, the stalemate will continue, the victims being the Palestinian residents of the area as well as the Jews who get killed in the mayhem.

One cannot ignore the history of Israel and of the Jewish people, and when one calls for the elimination of Israel one is speaking in the context of a millenium of genocide against Jews in Europe alone culminating in the 20th centuries greatest single atrocity. It is not irrelevant to this issue to remember that most Arab nations participated during the same time period in genocidal activity against Jews including many who overtly assisted the Nazis.

 

So you promote the US withdrawing all support for Israel? That's refreshing and just what I would promote.

I think soveirgn nations have the right to decide about their human rights issues without outside interference. Jews have their own ideas about the role of the woman, want to get into that discussion?

 

For those of you don't remember Rabin was assassinated by a Radical Jew...they are capable of killing their own.

 

Sadat was assassinated by his own. So was Gandhi. What is your point?

You have failed the objectivity test. Not a word about USA support for Arab nations. Of course if USA unilaterally withdrew support Israel would probably be overrun. Therefore you advocate a genocidal result. Plain and simple.

Try again. You pretended that you could accept "even" Jews having a nation, but then proved incapable of that basic leap in common morality.

Care to be a woman in Israel or an Arab country? Don't insult everyone's intelligence by pretending there is not a wide gulf between the 2.

Why are you incapable of ANY criticism of ANY Arab nation, government or person? This smacks of bigotry.

You've made no argument, only expressed your distaste for Israel. That distaste renders you suspect.

 

I think that you have gotten very off track here... the point of the original statement created here is worthy of some valid thought. (not whatever got you so worked up...what was it...the israel thing...) but the fact that what was purposed was to assassinate a public figure in order to stir up the complacency of the overall american public that is somehow oblivious to the problems in the US... and while i can see why this plan would be somewhat logical, i don't think that this is nescessarily the right audience for such banter.
I think that just by the name of the website in general,and the people who frequent this website, that we hold a pretty general belief that violence is not the best and steadfast way to achieve long term goals of peace and unity. The reasons why, i think, are pretty self explanatory. You instill fear through violence, and that creates oppression. so, under that premise, if what you want to do is create what you already had in the name of freedom, well that is silly. you are defeating your own purpose.
I think that its fine if some crazed criminal wants to "sacrafice" his life, but leave me out of it. Not because i dont believe that it wouldnt be great if we had a change, but because those are not the means by which i want to make a difference. There are all types of ways to mobilize and change, but violence truly is not the answer.

People remember tyrants, but never in a good way.

About israel-- you people all sound ignorant. Arab nations deserve just as much respect as anyone else. Jewish people are delightful--and these problems that exist between the two groups, is the fault of the american government, but moreover, the complacent american people who sit around doing nothing about what they do not like. We waste our time, and the rest of the worlds time coming up with ridiculous fake wars and oil bullshit. we the people, have not protected own our interests and given up rights, and for what???
So we can bitch on the internet about the shit we never did anything about....

 

So, I went back and read the first post all over again. That poster only mentions Israel once in the entire thing. All they said is that Bush is a puppet of Isreal. Well, he is. So what? It's all a government game. I doubt anybody here is involved in all that nonsense. The American GOVERNMENT and the Israel GOVERNMENT are in bed together, it's common knowledge. How that turned into a rant on racism, I don't know.... We all realize (I hope) that mostly, governments don't really have much to do with the real lives of the majority aside from making laws to tell us what to do and making money off us somehow... I doubt that any one here being attacked for being racist is actually racist... Hell, I thought this thread was about revolution.

 

Well I agree that revolution is the real theme of this thread. I also agree that violence is a most ugly thing. Neccessary, but really ugly. I think that sentiment that yem suggests is not all that off base. I think that those who want to see justice without breaking any societal norms is a healthy thing. However my word would not be to call a self-sacrificing patriot a criminal, but rather a servant of society. But whatever, it's only semantics, besides Jesus was called a criminal and now the majority consensus has changed. What i want to address now is the idea that one puppet will quickly be replaced by another neo-con front man. My retort is that it is true, but for every puppet that comes back there will be ten activated citizens waiting to sacrifice for the real team (HUMANITY). The systems in place are in need of massive evolution, which actually would be far more preferable than a civil war/revolution event! like i said i do not advocate chaos, but rather order, but without repercussions for those who are supposedly accountable leaders, chaos for profit will still be hidden away from justice in the so-called orderly proceedings of society. Movies and books are weapons not fully implemented, yet. Remember WEthe PEOPLE are the real POWERS that be. Albeit dormant powers, nevertheless WE are capable of shifting the plagues of society into an extinct position. HUMANS are really infinite potential when they act in the best interests of the species. Who determines the best interests of the species? You do, everytime your logic is sovereign over your personal motifs and aspirations. How can anybody really sustain that position without going broke, or being drained of all personal energies? Simple really, WE LOVE each other like family, make every single human accountable for their actions (point of thread) and we demand JUSTICE! WE have the numbers all WE need to do is vibrate in a new frequency, and this little hologram we call reality will change in the twinkling of an eye! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! Try to see a bigger picture for a second, a world with maximum (non-militarized) technology implementation, a place in time where war is fought only against those who refuse to allow FREEDOM JUSTICE and EQUALITY to prosper. Muslims and Christians who have a real respect for differing traditions, Pagans and Atheists that enjoy the cultural stirring pot a world worth living in is. A place where value destroying societal vampires fear JUSTICE! Aplace where you are free to acquire what you seek so long as that it is acquired thru the channel of value production. And also a place where those who are poor and maybe not so bright, still are entitled to all the rights that the richest citizens of the planet enjoy. Not opulence but nobody's starving, and the same law covers the heads of all. Idealistic? STFU. Realistic, and fully attainable. Each one of us is a critical piece of the puzzle, the butterfly effect is real, what you do and say and think all matters, especially when your logic is in place and you are seriously promoting progress. Just remember each one of you is priceless, and that the destiny of the species will be determined by what value human life is given by human's themselves. Demand JUSTICE and I RESPECT you, accept unjustice and I will try to shift you, promote unjust conditions and become the enemy, and I will put you on the greenlight list of zits that need to be popped. PEACE OUT...........

 

Bush controlled by Israel? That statement is indeed a big problem, worthy of confrontation. This is the lie that Jews control the world. The USA is the most powerful country, yet its leaders are CONTROLLED by Israel? That is the rap of Nazis and NOI. Jews run everything, they are the secret force behind the corporate world power, etc.

This is Nazi philosophy. The Nazis had similar paranoid delusions about Jews controlling Germany via finance, media, etc. This is why such assertions, even by obvious nutcases like Sourceboy, must be confronted. It is nothing less than persistent Nazism.

The reactions of the rest of you have shown how little real understanding has percolated to the people, even to those who think they're hip. How easily you're twisted by propaganda to demonize a group or nation. The flavor of the month. You're in way like inane white dilettantes inviting a Black Panther to dinner...the difference is, I liked the Panthers.

The people you're having to dinner and getting in bed with now are mass murderers, misogynists of the lowest order, and global imperialists on a mission. You ignore all of that because of the civil rights abuses of the Israel government. Israel! Israel! Israel! But I never hear such fierce or hateful criticism of ANY other country.

Let's hear you folks go on about Sudan, Myanmar, Iran, Kuwait or other brutal repressive dictatorships. Let's discuss Kuwait's "right to exist". Never do these arguments come up except regarding Israel. Most of the world's nations were created in the 20th century, yet only Israel's existence is questioned. If you can't see a problem here, a bigotry which colors your thinking...then you will persist in being bigots.

As for the "real" topic here being whether it's a good idea to support assassinations of world leaders to bring about revolution, that is the most insane idea ever posted on this board. Would you like to have government by assassination? Would you like to be ruled by the sorts of thugs who would carry out such a program? Sometimes y'all just don't think at all...

 

Whatever.... Being who we are, we only have alot of experience and knowledge about that which effects us the most. Post your theories to Iranians or Africans or anyone else on your list, and you might get different replies. Meantime, we here in the USA mostly know that our country is goin' STRAIGHT TO HELL courtesy of our government, and being as how Isreal is a "close ally"..... Personally I think that the GOVERNMENT of Isreal is as corrupt if not worse than our own. So much killing!!!! Stupid.
Makes perfect sense. "We" wish to control the mid-east, but we are HERE, not there. So we get some real vicious partners in crime who are willing to do any dastardly deed to get what they want, and who live next door to the countries we want controlled. Hey, that's how I'd do it if I wanted to control someone but was too far away... Of course, Isreal is all about killing and stealing land anyhow, and even tho some of what they are doing is totally evil, we just ignore that because we are getting what we want... Evil and evil, no real difference. But I am not stupid enough to lump all Jews together as being bad. That's like tossing out all the tomatoes simply due to a few rotten ones. Nobody blind or stupid here, just got our eyes open.
Far as violent revolution, well, it could happen. Maybe. Depends on alot of things. But if it does, it does, and we make the best of the situation, 'cause we certainly won't be able to stop it... Folks who think it's ok to go 'round killing folks they don't like are just looking for a quick fix. That isn't punishment. If ya want to punish someone, don't kill them, punish them! Sadam never should have been hung. All that did was to say it's JUST OK to kill folks you don't agree with. Stupid.

 

And there again is the problem. The rest of your opinions are part of reasonable debate, as far as revolution or whatever (still, I remind you, advocating the assassination of the Vice-President is probably illegal). But here again we see this selective anti-Israel sentiment. It is particularly ridiculous given that the USA supports many repressive fascist Arab regimes yet this is not mentioned. If you decry USA imperialism and therefore decry Israel as an ally and participant, that is fine, but you don't mention the European allies, you don't mention the Arabs whose governments conform to all the criticisms you've leveled against Israel, but in nearly every case WORSE.

Let's hear about USA aid to Jordan, Egypt, the Palestinian Authority, and the tangled web of USA relations with the Arab Gulf states.

But the heart of this sickness is your wording: Isreal (sic) is "all about"... I see. Israel is not about the independence of the Jewish people. It is not about national sovereignty. It is about killing? This is a modern nation founded by the refugees of killing, a mass genocide in Europe, systemic apartheid in the Soviet sphere, pogroms in the Arab nations. But they're all about killing? This is not a simple error on your part, it betrays a deep bigotry. This is the sort of bigotry which when fed grows and becomes Bosnia or Rwanda. It leads to you turning your head if someone were to commit a mass killing of Jews, simply for being Jews (that is the reason Arabs have been killing Jews for decades, simply because they are Jews, that makes it GENOCIDE)...and if this terror were to occur, say some power blew a dirty bomb in Haifa, for example...what would your response be?

But I will still be here to ask what is the difference between random killings targeted only at JEWISH ethnicity and Zyklon B? Let's hope your "revolutionary" thugs haven't taken over and already put me in a concentration camp for not chanting "Kill the Jews!" in unison with the rest of you.

 

Amen brother! Words well written and moving...boy was it moving..

 

Huh, must have missed something. I never saw a post that said "kill the jews".....