What point is society at?

I just thought I would ask in the forum on gay issues whether people who would speak of themselves and think of themselves as "gay" believe that generally society in the west is much more tollerant now of "gay" people and whether they believe that things could once again change so that they are in effect persecuted within society again or have "gay" people won a social battle once and for all time
In other words now that gay people have been accepted in society could that freedom easily be lost?

Incase anyone wonders why I would ask this - I am intrerested in the way that social groups emerge as a political force within a society and at what stage people believe their particular identity as a group is safe within the identity of a nation - at what point do you say - we have got what we wanted and we will not have that taken from us

For example - many people in britain fought hard to get the foxhunting laws changed but now they have been changed - they could at anytime be overturned again and foxhunting could re-establish itself easily

In Britain the right to equality for gay people has been enforced since 1967
and that is 40 years - yet still gay activism is a strong force

 

a few gays ago, usa's leading evangelical christian turns out to be a homosexual so i think soon christians will be accepting this as part of their faith

 

We're causing a schism. That's a good thing. It proves how important an issue it is. If it weren't an important issue, it wouldn't cause people to split their faith, and could be ignored

 

society is somewhat tolerant of gays. it really depends on the person. my grandma is not too homophobic but homophobic enough but then you have me, her own granddaughter and i'm bisexual. however, she does not know that.

 

The tolerance and acceptance in Western cultures is so much that it should amaze us as a people.
In most cultures, in most of human history, anywhere on the planet and being openly 'homosexual' was something that, at best was considered very much taboo and at worst was a real brutal death sentence.
Out of nowhere its parading down the streets and really not thought about as much of an issue with most people.
Sure, you read about some discrimination here and there but its not outstanding and you are 'worse off' being overwieght or unattractive as far as 'acceptance' and discrimination goes in general.

but yeah, there certainly did feel as if some sort of 'backlash' was mounting for a while there.
Oddly enough, I think the cultural saturation point not only came but it also went.
The average person just so exhausted from the whole thing that they just dont care anymore.
I know in Canada we 'were' getting lots of motivation over the whole 'same sex' issue (which was backdoored by a previous party) but even with the parliamentary vote coming up.... i think everyone is just so 'gayed out' that even the strongest opponents are just tired of the whole damn thing.

Congrats Brokeback Mountain and 'Queer Eye' because now you somehow made the whole Gay thing... tired and worn out?

 

Yes, thats exactly it, tired and worn out. Good thinking Proximo. I couldn't have said it worse myself.

 

Please remember to copy and then paste your form,
Thx

Unless you have something.. anything to contribute?
Anything at all?
No?

 

we still have a LONG time to go before we a truly accepted.

 

I think bush's "redneck aganda" is trying to disolve all the advancements we have made the last several decades, he and his ilk. ** spits out the nasty taste that names brings **

the ancient world 500-100 BCE accepted it .. think Greece, Rome, Sparta: men took young male lovers. Western religion is a source of anti-gay sentiment. As Night Owl49 said, we still have a LONG time to go before we are truly accepted, but I think it will happen in the not too distant future.

 

I know my parents were very anti homosexual, and I think that as time is going on - there is greater awareness, amongst the population in general that the issue is becoming less an issue and more a fact of life - I asked the question mainly because I thought "well issues are issues when they are new and in some way confrontational to what went before".
In britain it is so little of an issue now that I forgot to wonder how people who say they are gay feel about their status in society. I myself believe I am heterosexual. It does not taint my image of people who say they are gay but it does mean that I am not always privy to the knowledge of what society feels like to people who had to fight for their freedom of expression. For the right to say they are gay without fear of persecution or prosecution. I dont think it will be many more years before the idea of gay rights is a historical story because people will wonder what all the fuss was about - it will just be a case of well this is my partner and it wont matter if you are gay or straight - thats a good thing

 

I'm sorry but everything you say is mere opinions and beliefs. Theres no truth to what you say and half of the time you don't even make much sense. Its funny though to see some of your comments though, it makes me laugh.

 

That's not strictly true, you know. True, it's not always been so flagrantly celebrated as it is now (although I put a lot of that down to it being considered "cute" by the majority for the time being). But certainly Asian cultures, particularly Hindus, have been relatively tolerant and unabashed about it, and you'll find evidence in Chaucer's Cantebury Tales that, during the 14th century at least, homosexuality was at the very worst considered a vice rather than a sin. And that's ignoring the Greek and Roman empires altogether.

That's not to say we're not advancing in terms of equality, but I just thought I'd fill you in. I'm guessing someone will probably have said this stuff already.

Personally I think in another 20-30 years we'll have equality, if we work towards it. At the moment we're close to having legal equality, and if the civil rights/feminist movements of the 60s are anything to go by you'll need to wait til at least 20 years after the introduction of legislature for people's entrenched beliefs to begin to change. I reckon we'll probably see as close to equality as can be by the time I'm dead. So, that's something to look forward to.

 

So is anything your Doctor or Teacher says or anything you post either.

But hey,
Some have pointed out homosexuality as it was in various ancient cultures around the world throughout history.
Well,
There is something to this and in this case our little 'blip' on the scene is quite abberant and 'wierd' compared to the rest of time and cultures.
Here it is:
We have this concept there are a 'type of human' which is a 'gay'.
As if it was a third gender.
These are a sort of 'race' of people who are born with some different type of physiology than others.
How Odd!
Odd compared to not only other cultures but compared to just about anything in history.

There it was something people 'did'.
not something 'gays' did.
There were no type of people called 'the homosexuals'.
In Grecian culture you might very well be an aristocrat who has anal sex with young lads.
Then you might not.
Maybe you did once or maybe you did later.

Where are we at now?
The 'baby boomer' generation will pass away and the new generation have come around full circle it seems.
So many I talk to will tell me privately they dont buy into this idea there are 'gays'.
No more than there are 'BDSMosexuals' or 'Shoeosexuals' or 'Swingosexuals'.
Its a sex thing you are into.
and maybe you wont be into it later.
But you are not 'a gay'.

The problem I see is that this is NOT allowed and young 'gays' talking about this have told me its like being a Catholic and insulting the Pope or something.. the hammer will come down hard from the older generation.

What put it in perspective for me was being out for a smoke with some of the guys on campus.
The two of them are what we call 'homosexuals' or 'gays'.
but,
at one point an older man comes and chats them up (dont know what).
after he leaves,
The one says to the other "yeah, i hate that guy.. snicker snicker.. he probably believes people are 'gays'"
The other 'gay' guy scoffs and rolls his eyes and a girl with them scoffs too "fuck.. everyone is omnisexual"

To me that points to where the new generation will go.
Back to where we were in the first place in terms of perception.

 

I don't see that happening. Sexual orientation won't break down simply because people are more open to experimentation, otherwise it would never have had any reason to exist in the first place. Greater sexual liberation isn't going to turn everyone bisexual, if anything it will reaffirm orientation more because people will have less reason to doubt their sexuality if everything is permitted.

 

Specifically, this girl followed up the word 'Omnisexual' by adding 'everyone could get into any sex'
Taking it back to the common world view that you 'can' get into whatever you want.
Thats not even to say everyone would do everything.
But that sexual interests are just something you or anyone can persue.

I happen to agree with her and these guys (who we call 'homosexual') in that we are all 'anythingsexual' if we wanted to be.
Example:
When I was 17 and got a stack of Penthouse magazines, I was entirely 100% into the idea of having a 'threesome' with two women.
That was my 'ideal sex dream/lust/want etc.
But,
I think Id have gone wrong to tell myself (or be told) that I was a 'MenageetTroisosexual'.
That was how I was born or grew physiologicaly.
That this was the 'type of sexual' that I was.
No.
That was just the sexual thing I was totally into and wanted to do.
I suppose if I was to persue that and engage in it then I might get good at it and do it some more and make it an ongoing sexual preference.
or not.
Now I just laugh when I think about that and turn that idea down asap.
Its not even a consideration.

So, in that sense is where the 'counter terming' of 'Omnisexual' was used to express that they dont see this 'Gay' thing.
They dont consider themselves 'gays' or that they are 'the homosexuals'.
They were into giving each other blowjobs, at that time, at that station in life.
They liked it.
Maybe they will be into penis-vagina sex with their girlfriends later.
Or,
Be into swinging?
But they are not 'a thing' or 'a type of human' for it.

But you have to figure... this modern, western brand new concept is but a blip on the screen.
I figure we will just return to the common concept eventually.

 

(Note: during the following post, the word "FACT" can be substituted for "In my opinion".)

Hehe, that just reminds me of that Family Guy episode where Meg becomes a lesbian:

It's funnier the way they say it, so blasŽ and matter-of-factly. And yes, it would be a crass generalisation for me to suggest that it's easier for women to believe in "fluid sexuality" than men, because half of them consider themselves "bisexual" when they've actually just had a threesome or kissed a girl at a party (FACT: nothing that happens during a game of Spin The Bottle counts towards your sexual orientation). But I think there's maybe an element of truth in it. I also think it's a lot easier to belief in omnisexuality when you're an adolescent, because you've not witnessed so much evidence to the contrary. I'm pretty sure half my sixth form year claimed to be bisexual at one point, yet for some reason very few of them would say the same now. It's almost as if they based it on a small number of sexual encounters, and that, once they'd been round the block a few more times, they noticed that the vast majority of people they'd been with were either of one particular gender or people of the opposite gender who happened to look very androgynous (FACT: people who look like their "opposite" gender, or who have an androgynous appearence, also don't count towards your sexual orientation).

I'm not dismissing the possibility of omnisexuality off-hand. I just think we've arrived at a world of sexual orientations for a reason, and I don't think it has that much to do with social hegemony. Then again, I'm still pushing the entirely unscientific hypothesis that homosexuality is Gaia's way of dealing with over-population.

 

Well I hope we can all agree that the recent 'bisexual girl' phenom was something else entirely.
I could have gone to the popular 18-24 year old nightclub in our city on any given friday night and 30 out of 35 of the girls had figured out they were 'into women' and at some point kissing each other.
Much to the glee of 30 out of 35 young men getting excited over it all.
Fortunately, that whole thing reached its critical mass/saturation point and at this time is now considered 'so lame'.

That was some other thing unto itself.

 

Yes, it's considered lame. That doesn't stop any of them claiming that they hate how other girls fake bisexuality, when they really mean it and totally kiss other girls and everything.

 

Columbo, sugar, you really need a good, hard dick up your ass to really understand the Essence of Gay.
That's what we do as homos. We seek dicks, up our asses. This is our mission in life. Don't bother yourself with petty details of our reality. We want dicks, and we want them now. We fags have no politics. Go with it, sweetcheeks, feel the love deep inside of you.