I posted this in the wrong section, so I hope this can stimulate some sort of discussion in this section Do any of ya'll find it a shame the way "hell" is thrown around in modern Christianity? I know it's been used the whole time, but it seems like these days that's a large part of Christianity. It seems that large sects of Christianity are now based off the principle- Do this or go to hell. Hell makes all religion seem fake. It instill fear in it's followers. (I mean that in the sense of people that believe in hell as a tangible place that your soul goes") It seems that if people were to step back and think why they really "believe" in God, then they might realize it's much different. Also, religions that say "anyone that is not us is going to hell." It blows my mind that there are religions like that. People like Gandhi and what not, who were not Christians are going to hell? I just encourage people to step back and think how "hell" plays a role in their religion.
Indeed, sir. And the same can be applied to heaven. There is also a lot of "do this so you can go to heaven."
hell and heaven are mindframes. sent in to mold the morality. take off the shackles. so you'll realize the truth. neither exist. now, can't you sleep better at night.
This topic is posted almost once a week here at Hipforums somewhere and its probably posted 2343 times a second if we could ever find all the Christianity Criticism posts on the internet at once. I dont believe this is a signifigant issue in general and its mostly discussed by those who do not want to attend Church anymore or are looking for some justifications. One of the ideas is (in their mind) to sow seeds of hate against Christianity while giving themselves righteousness. The thinking goes like this: Its really bad to hurt people and burn them in hell forever - Christianity might teach that - so Christianity is really bad - Im good because Im against that. The truth is that Judaism as well as Christianity and other belief systems like Buddhism (sorry) and of course Islam all do have concepts of a 'State of Death'. An afterlife if you will. In these concepts there can be both a 'positive or negative' state of eternity. This might sound 'mean' to you but the problem is that your wish for something otherwise might just be the worst thing. Why? Because if you really did find out that someone like nice good person you went onto eternal bliss but that unrepentant sicko who spent his entire life causing pain and suffering gets the same reward? Even further to that - someone who knowingly rejects peace and heavenly salvation has to do it anyways? Now you are taking away free will from humanity and thats just another question you gotta deal with. So the idea of a 'negative' afterlife is not exactly bad in itself. Its bad if you choose it I suppose. And that bring about why Christianity may very well have the 'best hell' you will ever find or want. Indeed Jesus did teach about a 'negative afterlife' but in his teachings this is something you got to choose out of your own free will. No need whatsoever for you to go there. In fact, this is the very good news (Gospel) and its the very point of Christ being here. You can choose life instead of death. To wrap this up in a theological nutshell... the Christian 'hell' would be comprised of people, none of whom would be surprised they were there. We can imagine (from theological discourses) that if you were to ask anyone there they would know exactly why and know that they chose it. As for the popular antichristian 'Gandhi is in hell' argument - it has conditions that make it impossible to use. We would need to know if Gandhi was aware of the Gospel and if he responded by rejecting it. Now if he did indeed reject the gospel and Christ then you have cant stand there and have a problem with that. Would you suggest he be forced to change his mind or what? Just to throw something in here.. 'Hell' is refering to a place that will be open for business after the Judgement Day. Until then there does indicate a state of death which is called 'Sheol' or 'Hades'. I do agree that can be confusing for everyone including Christians themselves. Its a sort of unfortunate terminology problem found in english.
(quote)Do this or go to hell. Hell makes all religion seem fake. It instill fear in it's followers.(quote) The religion may seem fake, but Hell is very real. The good news is that Heaven is real too, and Jesus gave us a free pass into Heaven, so all we have to do is take it. Many religions do play off of other people's fear of Hell to control them, but Christianity is much more than just a religion, it's a relationship. To have a relationship with the one true savior, all you have to do is humble yourself before Him, confess that your not perfect, and accept His loving forgivness and grace. It's that simple.
Christianity may be about a relationship (it may not), but how exactly should one be brought to that? By fear of hell? Desire for heaven? Additionally, you can't show me that your relationship is a fabrication of your mind, which is something I feel is far more likely. Is it ok to convince people to become voluntarily delusional using hell? Or even without it?
What I will always find remarkable is how many there will be that will actually talk themselves into Hell, and then will be amazed when they realize that the place actually does exist. I know who Jesus Christ is, and if Jesus is delusional to me, then my mother and father must be as well. Because I have experienced Christ as much as I have experienced them. He is a God of wonder.
Well according to the Bible most of the world is headed for Hell. And most people would not believe that, yet also according to the Bible near the end of time the God of the Bible states that the Jews would return to Israel, they would retake Jerusalem, Jerusalems East Gate would remain sealed until God returns to open it Himself, and the nation of Israel would be surrounded by enemies. I would encourage people to step back and think how prophecies that are true effect your belief in the Bible. These's prophecies are not fake, and neither is the Bibles description of Hell.
Hyperbole much? Your parents are there whether you're asleep or not. They punish you when you step out of line, they give permission, etc. I don't believe that you have had any objective experience of christ. Which means something confirmed by a camera or someone else. Not a dream or a hallucination.
Prophecy of Jesus Christ speaking to the unsaved. Matthew 25:41 Then shall he (Jesus) say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the the devil and his angels: And yes, human Spirits along with fallen angels will be there together.
Well I'm running a little short on time but let me give you a couple examples of God in my life. I had failed a Job interview and came home a little down, this was many years ago. As I was going up the stairs towards my room, God spoke to me and said. "Tom, you have done everything but pray about getting a job" Upon hearing that I went upstairs and kneeled down by my mothers bed and prayed. I told God that I needed a job and what ever happened now would be because of Him. And as soon as I said the A of Amen the phone next to me began to ring. When I picked up the phone tha man on the other end asked if I could go to work for him monday moring at 8 a.m. I did, and worked that job for a full year. Another time I was coming home from work and I was just praying and thanking God for my life when he stopped me in the middle of my prayer and told me that my wife was going to have a child. I told God we had not even talked about having a child, but thanked Him for the child to come. I went home to tell my wife but she was already asleep, so I recall just leaning on the door and thinking, "my poor wife she is pregnant and does not even know it". I then went to bed and woke up to find my wife throwing up in the bathroom about 4 hours later. She was pregnant.
Hey Campbell- What I said was a portion of the fallen angels went to "tartarus". That is all we can honestly say about the place referred to by Peter(and no he wasn't a "Pope") called "tartarus" which is only used once in the Greek of the N.T. and was translated "hell". Never does the bible mention that human spirits will go to "tartarus". Now read 2Peter 2:4 - the only place in the entire bible where "tartarus" is used. Read it slowly and tell me what you see? Do you see the word "unto" or "to"? Interesting huh? "Reserved UNTO judgement".... "UNTO"...... UNTO a point of time.... unto a time of judgement...... "everlasting" chains? Chains UNTO.... not "everlasting". "everlasting" fire? This may be why many non-Christians are not very receptive to the bible. This may be why many non-christians here are so scared of the bible and our God who BTW is getting a bad rap even by many who take His name upon themselves. The fact of the matter is that God The Creator is not going to let any of us down. He will come out of this whole thing smelling like a rose. Guaranteed. "everlasting" = aionian : the adjective derived from the noun AION. Matthew 24:3 "end of the AION("AGE") not COSMOS(WORLD) and definitely not "end of ETERNITY".... Basic rule of language - an adjective never takes on a greater meaning than the noun it is derived from. The noun AION = AGE not ETERNITY... AGE = a limited duration of time with both a beginning and end. So, the ajective AIONIAN derived from the noun AION = "AGE-LASTING" or "pertaning to the AION(AGE) or the AIONS(AGES)/ or time of the AION(AGE) or AIONS(ages). And yes, the noun AION is also in it's plural form in the N.T. and it is defined as AGES(AIONS) not "ETERNITIES". Paul even speaks of the END(CONSUMMATION) of the "AIONS"(AGES) not "ETERNITIES". Basic rule of language - an adjective never takes on a greater meaning than the noun it is derived from. I am not your enemy... just here to share.
Campbell - I also have many similar accounts in my life. I came to know Jesus in a Very Powerful and Supernatural way in my twenties.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Nice to meet u mountainman7
Likewise Campbell - One should not just assume(and I am not implying that you are doing this) that "tartarus", "the lake of fire", "hades"/"sheol, or "Gehenna" are all the same place.... or assume that any grouping(2, 3, 4, or 5) of them are the same thing or place. Acts 2:27 quotes the O.T. where the Hebrew word "Sheol" is used. In Acts 2:27 the Hebrew word "Sheol" is translated into the Greek word "Hades" proving that "Sheol" and "Hades" were considered equivalent by the writer of Acts. Lumping all of the words("Sheol"/"Hades", "Tartarus", "Gehenna") all together(or in groups of 2,3, or 4) and labeling them with the english word "hell", as most who have not Truly studied Greek and Hebrew so often do, and as many translators have done in full awareness that they are not being true to the methods of consistent and accurate translation is quite a liberty to be taking with such a book as the book of books. As I have said, "Tartarus" is only mentioned once. From the one place it is mentioned in the Greek, we can only honestly ascertain that it is a place of holding for a porton of the fallen angels "UNTO" a point of time of judgement.... RESERVED "UNTO".... It is not "hell" of our modern day defining. "Hell" is a word that originally meant "a hidden place" and that is all, not what it means today. We really need to stop reading our preconceptions into words and into verses of the bible. We really need to seek out answers about the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic languages of the bible. God is really getting a bad rap, so to say. But as I have said, He will come out of this smelling like a rose - Guaranteed. The definition of the English word "hell" has changed over time. Many words change meaning over time. "Suffer" in King James' time meant "allow"("Suffer" the little children to come to Me.") "Suffer" means a completely different thing today, as you well know. "Usage" always determines the true meaning of a word at the time it was written. One may easily determine that the word "suffer", at the time of King James, did not mean what it means today by THE WAY THAT IT WAS USED IN CONTEXT. "Suffer" the little children to come to Me.... In Usage and context, "Suffer" meant "ALLOW" at the time it was being used by the translators of the KJV. "Suffer" did not mean anything even close to what it means today. I could go on and on with other examples, but I feel that is sufficient. This rule does apply to the history of all languages. And yes, the true languages of the bible. One should not just assume that "tartarus", "lake of fire", "hades"/"sheol, or "gehenna" are all the same place.... as most who have not Truly studied Greek and Hebrew so often do. "Hades" and "the lake of fire" are not the same thing. Study Revelation 20:14 where death and "HADES" are thrown into "the lake of fire". "HADES" is THROWN INTO "the lake of fire"... Hence "HADES" and "the lake of fire" can not be the same thing or place. Also, "Tartarus" is not the same place as "HADES/SHEOL", "Gehenna", "the lake of fire", or "paradise" for that matter. As I said, "Tartarus" is mentioned only once and only as a place of holding for a portion of the fallen angels. "Forever and Ever"...... Honestly and systematically study the Greek and Hebrew words behind "Forever", "Ever", "Everlasting", Eternal", keeping in mind the basic rules of language that I have mentioned. I have shared enough about those words in one of my previous posts for one to research, if they truly desire to find answers. Also, the word translated "and" in the phrase "Forever and Ever" is more accurately translated as "OF". It is not KAI(AND) in the Greek language. "Forever", "Ever", "Everlasting", and "Eternal" are English words that do not honestly and accurately represent the Greek word AION(AGE) in its different forms nor the Hebrew word OLAM(AGE) in its different forms. Just here to help others, if they truly desire answers.
Bye Everybody. Time for me to move onward...... I really hope someone gets even just a little bit of help from what I have been helped by and have shared here. I must move on before I am banned, as I have been threatened with.
