Religion never hurt anybody... (rant)

One thing I'm really sick of hearing about is how religion is stupid, and wrong, and destructive...

Maybe religion seems to be responsible for most wars... but most wars never get really destructive until science got involved. A holy war could be a bunch of people with rocks and sharp sticks hitting each other... but get science involved, and it's a single bomb that kills millions of people, trees and animals in the blink of an eye.

But hey... scientific progress sure has done a lot for us... overpopulation, global warming, nuclear weapons, viruses, ruined ecosystems, deforestation, ugly buildings, bigger cities, mass media... and to top it all off, we're in the middle of the fastest mass extinction event ever in the history of the planet... faster than the one that killed the fucking dinosaurs! Why? Because we're doing it to ourselves! Because we don't have any discipline or beliefs, just theories and experiments and consumer demands. We have 'spirituality', which is as superficial and noncommittal as befits such a horrible, empty world.

Species are disappearing from the oceans and the forests, and nobody gives a shit because we're too busy designing faster computers, smaller portable MP3 players, and ways to make people live longer, when there are too many fucking people in the world as it is.

But hey, at least we humans have more time on this planet to enjoy our wasteful, polluting lifestyles... I mean, that's what's really important, right? Human beings have to live until they're old and worthless and can't contribute anything to society... because death is way worse than being depressed and not having the will or the energy to actually do anything anymore except eat and sleep and consume and resent the people who don't find you interesting anymore.

No offense, but religion doesn't fuck up the planet half as badly as science... I mean, science and industry have warped our value systems so badly we actually believe that we're working towards some great answer, or some wonderful future utopian society... that we were actually meant to have it, or even worse, that we somehow DESERVE it! I mean, here we are, knowingly and willfully destroying the planet and we still believe that we deserve to have more for ourselves... that we deserve to live in harmony with everything. That we should all have families and reproduce because we need more people in the world, because there aren't enough already!

It's totally fucked up!!

Anyway, that is why I would take religion over science anyday... because even though people kill each other over religion, science has done way more damage. I'm not saying ignorance is bliss, but I definitely think that
it beats wrecking everything.

 

Yes i do appreciate the rhetoric (proud even) and I will just have to sit here hoping beyond hope that at least one person can 'get it'.

 

Ummm, but what about the superweapon God?

He already wiped out everyone in the world, except one family, once. And, he's planning to come back, for seconds!

"RUN AWAY!" ~ King Arthur


Peace

 

OK, you start by saying religion never hurt anyone and then openly admit it causes violent conflict. I think you’re a little confused about science too. First, I’m sure the overwhelming majority of scientists would agree that the world is overpopulated. What does religion have to say about population…. “ Birth control is a SIN!”.

Secondly they are the first people to tell you that the industrialized world is destroying the environment by polluting and burning fossil fuels. It is the religious community that has blocked the advancement of science. In the religious mind, this world is disposable, out of their hands, controlled by God and his “plan”… all excellent excuses to do nothing at all for the long term advancement of mankind.

You are absolutely right about industrialized weapons and our new found powers of mass extinction. The most dangerous thing about these weapons is that they are ALL in the hands of the RELIGIOUS. Science was born from the religious world, many of our biggest industrial advancements were invented by military to be used specifically in religious wars.

The bottom line is time is running out for man and the environment; we have a very small window of time to change the mindset of BILLIONS in order to save the environment. I can’t see any way it’s even going to happen.

 

Im going to call Jay as a 'got it'.

Relaxxx just took a nosedive off the cliff as usual.

 

You are blaming science and technology, when at the heart of it, it is the people that are the doing the evil. They have a conscious choice to do what they do. Religion has been a major cause of people doing evil, historically.

 

Go DD!
Im going to hold you to that btw

 

So obviously, when they dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it was because the Japanese were Buddhists! Sorry, no... it was the fiercest conflict the world had ever known, and religion had absolutely nothing to do with it. Fucking hell, the whole American propaganda strategy was that the
Japanese were just poor innocent followers of an evil Prime Minister.

So they didn't even WANT to be killing so many of them... they just did it because no one was letting up and because they had the technology to do it! The US government wanted to see how many people their new toy would kill. But, to be fair, it was obviously because someone read in the Bible that it was the right thing to do.

And hey, there's something about an SUV that just screams 'Jesus died for your sins', isn't there? And where would religion be now with televangelism? Fucking hell, what we have now isn't even religion anyway... it's a bunch of mindless idiots recycling a tired series of meaningless catchphrases. There's no dedication, no discipline, no adherence to any sort of principles... it's all self-image.

Honestly, giving me the whole 'it's not the science, it's how it's used' thing is also crap. So, industrialization CAUSES pollution and CAUSES the death of our planet, CAUSES weapons of mass destruction, CAUSES overpopulation through medicines and vaccines and all the endless ways it is helping us all to live longer than we probably should... and I'm supposed to say it's great because one day, maybe, we might be able to use it for some kind of good??? Or because, millions of dollars later, it tells us that YES, we are indeed fucking up the planet like we thought??? No offense, but I could have told you that millions of dollars sooner. This winter has been so fucked up weather-wise that it's scary! So science is going to clean up the world? When??? How????

The Amish know what they're doing... they're religious as hell, and there's no fighting! There's no guilt over having caused global warming... they ride around in buggies with horses for fuck's sakes! They don't have electricity... they go to religious schools, they sell corn... yeah, it looks pretty uncomfortable to me, but they don't seem completely unhappy!

I'm not saying that humans don't have to take responsibility for fucking everything up, they do... but honestly, if we could all stop being so arrogant as to think we really know what we're doing and just agree to take a step back, and maybe rethink what we're doing... then it would definitely be a miracle!!!

Oh yeah, and the whole 'Birth control is a SIN' argument... what about 'no sex outside of wedlock'? Anyway, that's pretty stupid to say that not using a condom is contributing to overpopulation... I mean, condoms have only been around since the sixties! Are you saying that forty some odd years ago, science developed condoms and all of a sudden the people choosing not to use them are responsible for overpopulation? Like it wasn't already happening at that point?

 

Obviously, you don't know much about the Japanese religion, at the time.


Peace

 

I am talking about the Americans here... this wasn't the Christians versus the Shinto/Buddhists, this was the Americans versus the Japanese. This was about Nationalism, not religion. True, religion is often a component of Nationalism... but it's not necessarily the driving force. And it wasn't the driving force in that conflict...

Anyway, my argument isn't really that religion is wonderful (in hindsight I probably shouldn't have called this rant 'religion never hurt anybody'), I'm just saying that it's less destructive than science... and it's absurd to revere science as if it's some kind of absolute answer to all of our problems, when it's actually causing as much, if not more harm than any religion ever has. That's it.

Anyway, why doesn't anyone ever address the strong points of another person's argument as opposed to zeroing in on some lesser point and then trying to use that to somehow undermine their credibility???

 

misterrain, I am not sure of your point. The bulk of the people using the technology that you speek of are religious.

 

neither REAL religoen NOR REAL science are the problem. people using one or the other or both, as excuse and or pretence to essentialy screw everyone else is. the perfume to hide the stench of this is usualy called idiology, and the proccess called politics or sometimes economics. the latter by the way, is no science by the way real science is defined.

nor is real nature, nor even tecnologies that are harmonious and compatable to the highest possible degree with real nature any part of the REAL problem.

there MAY be one god. there MAY be no god. there MAY be zillions of them.
whatever there MAY be, it IS up to us, to avoid screwing everything up for each other. (and by so doing ultimately ourselves because we DO still have to live in the same world as long as we do)

THAT is what is important and THAT is what counts.

=^^=
.../\...

 

Religion and Science are not things that can do anything. Saying religion did something is like saying that religion snuck up on you and picked your pocket, or science drove a car into your mailbox and then flipped you the bird. Humans do things and often use religion as justification or a vehicle to focuse their energy. Science is nothing more than a tool to create more technology (some technology can be deemed helpful and some can be deemed destructive).

 

Obviously you are not one of them.

The process for artificially creating fertilizer (NH3) has made famine a rare event. Chemicals such as bleach and medical advances has made our lives longer and much freer of disease. If you don't like it, run away from the technological world and go sit in a hole and pray to your god to protect you. We'll see how long you last.

Science has made the world a better place, yet Religious Ideology has brought us to the brink of another world war.

 

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

 

I dare you to explain how and why I didnt 'get' anything in this thread.
Really, please go right ahead.
No?


Oh and by the way, scientific enlightenment comes out of Christianity.
Pretty cool eh.

 

Oh really? I didn't know Jesus was born before Aristotle. News to me. lol.

Science has emerged despite your religion's constant interference.

And statements without logic are gay. So which religion does this refer: Satan Worship, Flying Spaghetti Monster, and that one with the Big Angry Asshole in the Sky?

 

Okay, I'm willing to admit that religion and science can't really be blamed for anything because everyone has free will (and even though that can also be debated, it's just not worth it... because it's impossible to argue six or seven topics simultaneously and have some kind of coherent argument come out of it!)

You're right... everyone has the potential to make the world a better place... but I don't think anyone really knows HOW to go about doing it, because no one knows what a better world would look like, or how it would work, or anything. All we really know is what's happening now, and I don't think anyone can say that it's good or bad either!

This is an example of what I was talking about from the very beginning. Everything that this person has said has proven my point... somehow, human beings have gotten it into their head that the best thing that could possibly happen to the world is MORE PEOPLE.

Then he resorts to the old cliche is that the only way to actually get away from what humans have created is to 'sit in a hole' and 'pray'... which is another one of my points. There are so many people who willfully and carelessly use science and technology to make their lives easier (yes, myself included) without concern for repurcussions or without even thinking if it's the best thing for the world... people only care if it's the best thing FOR THEM. Or for other PEOPLE.

So instead of trying to get people to change, anyone who doesn't like it should just leave, because there's no way that anything they say is going to change anything.

If we were really concerned about the planet, we'd all just stop. Just stop everything until we could be sure that we knew what we were doing. Instead, we cling to the promise of some future solution which may or may not happen, the value of which is determined by its ability to allow us to continue living the way that we do with only the most minor disruption of our comfort.

Religion is about about self-sacrifice... if more people were religious (I don't mean everyone should worship the bible or anything... but if there were some sort of coherent and organized belief system... or, fucking hell, even a less insular sense of basic MORALITY) then stopping everything wouldn't be a problem, as long as they believed it was for the good of the planet (which it IS). Of course, the consequences are terrifying, but at least it would be better then destroying everything including ourselves just because we're afraid of losing everything we know.

 

Oh yeah, and saying that we're on the brink of a world war and claiming that religion is involved is pretty stupid. The only war going on right now has more to do with OIL and automobiles (science and technology) than any kind of religion.

Terrorists are religious, yes... but I really don't think they would be so angry if the US hadn't been so desperate to score oil contracts with middle eastern nations that they'd installed countless puppet governments and backed all sorts of terrorists and tyrants because they'd promised them OIL for their ever-increasingly wasteful and environment-destroying automobiles and machinery.

And hey... these terrorists are SO religious, that all they wanted in return was the TECHNOLOGY to produce weapons for their terrorist armies. The US gets into bed with terrorists and then gets angry when the terrorists turn on them???

Labelling them religious extremists is a way of diverting blame... that's all. What, the US is going to tell everyone that it's THEIR FAULT?? That's not exactly good for the morale of our troops, now is it?

Even if they are religious extremists, have you ever wondered what the US did to make them so angry?? You don't honestly think it was because everyone was just harmlessly sitting in their nice cosy homes with their wealth and their privileges and driving their harmless SUVs to work every day, just minding their own business and not hurting anyone, do you??

The US is like that fat person you see in the restaurant, ordering himself a huge meal with a huge dessert... and you just look at him scarfing it down and think 'you're fucking disgusting' because he's already so disgustingly fat and doesn't give a shit about anything but his own appetite.

 

That is pure and utter crap.

Thanks to science, skyscrapers and airplanes are a reality, but it played no part in slamming the two together on 9/11. That was done by RELIGION. And the retard currently occupying the White House used HIS religion to escalate the war.