A Crippling debate about vegetarianism

I've been a vegetarian for closer to two years than one now. I decided to become a vegetarian on a whim, but before I went through with it I commited to some heavy research and decided cutting meat out of my diet would be the best thing for me to do based on what I learned.

Despite this I've never been keen on explaining to anybody why I'm a vegetarian, because for some reason I have a hard time not being timid in this debate. Which is weird for me because I'm usually shooting my mouth off about one thing or another that I believe in.

Anyway, the other night I was hanging out with a couple friends of mine (one of which is really kind of an asshole) and the conversation finds its way to vegetarianism, and the two others took a position that it is -selfish- to be a vegetarian. Usually in such a debate I can pull numbers and facts out of my head like nothing, but I've long forgotten most of these for vegetarianism, and I haven't even reflected on my choice of lifestyle in months! So, obviously I had a hard time arguing for our side.

Their position that vegetarianism is selfish:
- By cutting meat out of my diet I am not making any impact at all on the factory farming industry, but I am impacting the people I know by refusing to eat food they cook putting them into a position where they feel like they have to prepare two meals, and belittling them morally when I say 'I'm too morally sound to eat what you're eating, I mean you go ahead and eat it but I'm too good for it' [they say this is how simply declaring I'm a vegetarian is interpreted by many people and my intention is irrelevent]

- By depriving the meat industry of money I'm making humans suffer for the sake of alleviating animal suffering. Of course, I'm contributing to soy farming instead and contributing to other food industries as well, but this point came up when they asked me if I would put an end to factory farming if I could and I said yes (I wouldn't make it against the law, but if I could do it by shifting public opinion so that the public would refuse to support factory farming...). I think this point is quite weak, because in our economy, it is necessary for jobs to shift with the introduction of new techonologies, etc. and these people would be redispersed into different sections of the food industry. To this they say, even that entails some human suffering, as meat farmers would need to learn new skills with no income.

- When I said I opposed factory farming and even organic meat in a way (simply because to provide north america with organic meat at the obscene levels we consume it would not be feasible) but supported their right to hunt their own food they said its natural for humans to eat meat and to use our superior intelligence to raise meat in the most economical way possible.

- Most animals don't deserve rights because they don't have the capacity to understand their rights.

To save myself some of the embarrasment of my own timid debating style that night, I promised to write up a page or so justifying my lifestyle. Something I also want to do to prove to myself that I still believe in what I'm doing.

What do you think of their argument? Why are you a vegetarian? All of the factors, Animal Rights, Environmental, Health, etc. Help me get back to my vegetarian roots?

[sorry about the long scattered post]

 

Diversity is part of life. Sounds like your friends are living an insular, self assured life. We are not all gonna eat meat so our meat eating friends can feel justified. We're not all going to become Southern Baptist either, or straight or anything else just to conform to someone else's comfort zone.

As for the "what's natural" debate--- gods, that's arguement is trite. Grub worms, insects, lizards, frogs were all part of early human's diet, (as were other humans) but Mickey Dees and Burger King weren't on the menu. Back then life expectancy was 30. An abcessed tooth was liable as not to kill you.

Some estimates put early humans diet at 90% vegetarian anyway, but the truth is 1.) meat consumption today is a different animal than meat consumption then (IE hunting/primitive animal husbandry vs factory farming) 2.) Where we started out (in the Paleolithic Era) isn't where we stop at (and I dare add if we ever saw first hand, I doubt we would want too) and 3.) There is so much unknown about that era that it is easy to reify it, making it into whatever we want it to be or using to justify our own aggendas.

Frankly, for all our problems, things are a little better now than then.

And if understanding your rights is required for having them, then do lawyers get more rights than the rest of us? It's a rather innane line of logic.

~Scrap

 

Hey what about PETA who compared animal slaughter the Holocaust.
Sorry you are just as sick when it comes to debates.

 

if you were diebetic would it be selfish for you not to eat a cake they made you, merely because it was food they put in front of you? if you were lacto intolerant would it be selfish not to drink the glass of milk or bowl of ice cream they put in fornt of you? if you were a recovering alcoholic, would it be selfish to not drink teh beer they got you? if you were allergic to something such as nuts (or anything else for that matter), would it be selfish not to eat something just because they putmit front of you?

 

your friends are fucktards.

 

Vegetarianism selfish? WTF?
Because of course it's not selfish to kill animals, suppourt a sadistic industy that destroys the enviroment and trash your health just because you fancy a steak?

I'd have trouble coming up with answers to, that is almost blinding stupidity.

Totally agree with Scrap and Gertie

Oh and as for inconviencing people with your diet. That's crap, or at least it should be. If you tell them ahead or time they can prepare something for you (which, think about it, they'd be doing anyway) or else bring your own food and just eat the veggie side dishes.

 

It doesn't sound as if your 'friends' were truly interested in learning about why you are a vegetarian. They just wanted to get a rise out of you. It wouldn't matter if you had the best arguments in the world, they still wouldn't listen because their only interest was in causing a fight. In situations like this, it's a good idea to say something like, "I don't really like to get into debates over dinner. If you want to talk about it, let's discuss it some other time." This weeds out the people who truly want information from those who just want to cause problems.

If you're interested in the reasoning behind vegetarian issues, someone has set up a HUGE FAQ page at http://animalvegfaq.tripod.com/ . (Shorter version: http://animalvegfaq.tripod.com/qandalist.html ) It may help give you some ideas of your own for answers to questions like those you listed above. Once again, however, it won't matter to some people how good your responses are. Some just want trouble.
By the way, you're a very mature thinker and writer for 15. Your post is certainly a lot more clearly-thought out than the reply about PETA. As if the opinion of a few of the higher-ups at a single organization reflects the views of every single person who doesn't eat meat. Vegetarians are a diverse group of people. How about not painting everyone with such a broad brush.

 

Don't let it get you down, man. There are many people who can't see the light but their time will (hopefully) come. Just don't get arrogant about your superior intellect over your friends, or they'll get jealous and go off veg*nism for good! Just come here to vent and we'll agree with ya!