1,2,3...What are we fightin' for?

Don't forget that he tried to buy aluminum tubes from China that were supposedly going to be used to build centrifuges to make an atomic bomb. We could invade every country on the planet based on that type of argument.

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don't promote war or justify it if you are not prepared to fight in it. if the cause was so just you'd over in iraq banging out some bullets at the enemy rather than banging out some words in a keyboard. these are harsh words i know but to face truth is sometimes a brutal thing, better you ask yourself these questions now.

 

I think half of what i say goes in one ear and out the other. I'm not promoting anything. I recognise along with every other country in the world and the vast swath of humankind - that war was/is a distinct possibility. As neanderthal as the whole thing is.

Given Saddam failed in his obligations [like i said]. War is 'out there' so that was the end result [unfortunatly] . Will we as a species grow out of not having that possibility [war] on the table ? i do not know - more than likely not.

I appreciate you do not see this war as justified - do you see ANY war as justified ?. If the answer is NO. Then drop this subject as we will never get on common ground. Maybe then you would stop asking people who you do not agree with to 'join up'.
If you DO see some wars as 'justified' do you not see the idiocy of asking every one that 'supports' or agrees with the rationale of why it has occured - to go 'join up'.

Either way - justified or unjustified - legal or illegal [ the legality of wars should show how engrained the whole process is in our societies] the results to innocent people are the same. YES i think long and hard about that. I have stopped though now - as it is counter productive and hypocritical.

Like i said i'm NOT a pacifist - unlike it seems you are. In your book 3/4s of mankind should be 'joining up' as they are not pacifists and 'accept' war as a consequence of a break down in the diplomatic process.

 

Of course, the US also possesses WMD's and fails to live up to their UN obligations.

 

Can you provide some further inforamtion - please.

Anyhoo thanks for indirectly guiding me to [don't worry how *chuckle*]

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9810/31/iraq.un.04/

 

there are always consequences for our beliefs.

thinking about stuff long and hard is good sometimes. the problem is that to think about supporting and justifying the war and then not be willing to take part in it is of course troubling. it fries your brains.

if the "allies" hadn't invaded on false pretext there wouldn't be so much trouble. if america had actually asked the un about going into afghanistan and made it truely a police action and finding the real troublemakers then it could have been an operation limited in scope and most importantly regulated and authorised action.

at the end of the day - don't make people hate you by bombing them. the taliban before the soviet invasion probably didn't have much against america apart from it being the infidel but a long way away. limited support and an understanding of the islamic world would work wonders.

 

Well being judged by others is one - i suppose.

Well i've gone through it enough with you - i think it troubles you more than I.

What would have been the right pretext ?.
Whatever the pretext - Maybe not that day maybe not that year - but it would have kicked off at some point - regardless.

I was watching a programme the other day it was about ''freedom''. It was more than likely old news to a lot of people here - but it was a revelation to me.
We can go on and on about who is insighting who and who's fault it was and if this occured that would occur. The problem is their is a clash of ideas going on here imho - all to do wih http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_liberty well 'liberty'.

That is what has caused half the shit in recent history imho.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/noise/?id=trap
http://liberalpolemic.blogspot.com/2007/03/trap-whatever-happened-to-our-dreams-of_26.html
http://www.culturewars.org.uk/2007-03/trap.htm

When was the last time the average Jo had a discusion [in relation to current events] down the pub about positive and negative liberty ? When was the last time the average Jo had a discusion about current events such as Iraq being about Oil ?.

 

If you support war, you ain't hip. Period.

 

hip:
1.Keenly aware of or knowledgeable about the latest trends or developments.
2.Very fashionable or stylish.

Hands up - guilty as charged

 

ya, one big mess

 

the main thing for war supporters is to ignore the facts.

once this is done one may justify a whole host of horrors perpetrated by soldiers led by the government. it is doubtful if war supporters have any conscience any reasoning skills, let alone get their hands dirty.

its hard to imagine being sat in my chair now that some X kilometers away there is a war being fought on the basis of a lie (but then again aren't all wars?), i suppose its a way of keeping the population down. at not too much of a stretch of imagination the war is not just about a war for the conquest of the oilfields it is a war of existence, it is a genocidal action designed to wipe out the arabs. with the arabs consigned to the history books i guess theres a whole lot of land for lebensraum with gods blessing. i suppose as with all populations of animals there is a tipping point, a point where after exterminating X millions of them like vermin they go into extinction. the arabs aren't the brightest stars in the sky, no doubt by the time they realise they are being wiped out for colonisation it will be too late. the arabs never really understood the west this is why they have consigned their culture and existence to archaeology time and time again they have been bombed by the western powers and they never got it. maybe from a purely nihilistic and darwinian perspective the arabs and associated enemies will cease to be??

 

You are bloody crazy guy - i think you jumped off the rational train [where i was on board] and decieded to ignore anything i had to say...and go on about something that is just crazy talk.

I'm going to assume you are against ALL war and it is a waste of my energy responding any further..because you are clearly not listening or responding to anything i say.

One thing i have never done is ignore the facts.

 

i'm a man against war and you are a man that won't go to one.

 

Drugs are bad mmmmmkay!!

 

i believe the reponse to that is..

"whatever"

so are you going to the war or are you there now?

 

Well i did ask you that a while ago - infact i probably asked you that in the other thread.

I'd hoped we had gone past the 'join up' conversation. I respect your pascifistic POV - just it is a complete waste of our time if you do not declare that from the start .

 

but you see this is the crux of the situation as it stands.


the thread is entitled 1,2,3 what are WE fighting for?

theres too many unwilling to go fight yet are willing to send other people to do the fighting. in the old days a general was actually expected to show their face at the front. the kings of england at least some balls and fronted up for battle "once more into the breach...." without being there on the ground eventually leads to mismanagement. send the generals and politicians to iraq and the war would vapourise into thin air.

 

*sigh*

LIBERTINE ASKED A QUESTION -

Ok, this is for all the Bush apologists (such as "Pepik/PB" and his ilk) to enlighten us all on the REAL reason(s) we invaded Iraq.

I've already gone through YOUR question several times.

 

yes you've told me you won't go and fight in a war you believe in.

for what its worth, as i understand it now, the attack on the middle east is an ethnic cleansing operation.

 

Well i hope we can move on from that now ?.

by whom in your humble opinion.