just thinking

have any of you realized how serious some people would take it if they found out there is no afterlife. like, they would have to accept that this is it and what they do now is what they get, all the hardships and pain are all it is, along with all the great things to live for. do you think this would be better for people to just realize that? do you think people would live better and "seize the day" knowing that its all bullshit(heaven and all that)

 

no, they wouldnt live better....

they would lead a miserable life wondering why their are still millions of questions and only 100 years to answer them and 100 years to live their first and last life, hoping they were wrong about most of the questions that they themselves answered....

they would hope that if theistic being existed he would be the forgiving type, and would allow an agnostic or atheist into heaven.....they would speculate about how meaningless billions of lives before them were to the ignorance of people outside of their particular circles, and how meaningless their life would become in their years of old age and decay.....

they would realise how people shouldnt fight over color or creed but instead, unite to fix the problems oposing them....

and they would never have to pay taxes........

at leaast in my perfect world, thats how it would be...........

 

the fact of the matter is nobody knows if there is or isnt an afterlife no one has ever come back to tell us!!people need to believe in something coz lets face it life on earth isnt always sunshine andd roses it helps people to know that after they die their spirt will live in harmony and peace forever. plus religion gives guidlines on how to live morally i still think the majority of people need god to keep them from dispair.

 

Pixie

Well said

Occam

 

Heeh2

You might. Most humans [70%?] would never worry about questions unanswered.
They never questioned anything to start with. [from my empirical experience]
Most just WANT MORE OF BEING ALIVE.
Why?
Cause not being alive is a thing they dont understand. [and that is terrorfying]

Occam

Occam personally accepted way back that this was all he gets.
Why should he get more?. He did nothing for this great treasure he has now.
Occam will enjoy his life as best he can.
Then he will cease to exist. Good stuff.

 

thanks razorofoccam your dead (no pun intended) right people cant grasp the idea of not being alive!!i like to think death is just the earth calling me back home to nurish new life!!hey do ya know how the universe is expanding and how everything in the universe is created in the center of that universe that means we are the stuff that stars are made of is it possible that when we die we become stars????or am i really wasted right now????

 

Religion is hope and a promise of something better. This is why the strongest, most extreme faiths are found in the harshest environments.

The irony is that these extremist faiths and the ignorance involved in believing these false promises are blocking humanity from progressing into a more peaceful, more advanced civilization with a better quality of living.

 

Life after death is something that I have seen enough personal evidence in my life to be convinced of as being real. It is only true for me though. If you are nice to people so you can receive some post mortem prize.... well, that is not my definition of kindness, but is more like greed or desire. If atheists are nice, it is so society as a whole is nicer because of it, and not in anticipation of some pay off once they die. I see Mother Teresa as the most extreme example of religion in the modern day, and the Dalai Lama is another good one. They live in harsh environments, true, but, imho, that is not at all why they are religious. Bin Laden was a millionaire, from a very wealthy family, and an extremist... and not alone.

 

what im saying is basically, why cant people live for the now? its like all human problems besides like nature(earthquakes, tornadoes,viruses exc) are started by us. we can fix them, we use science to make medicines and all that or suergons to fix deformities and all that. just examples.


i think people underestimated human potential is all im saying. we make up gods and shit to cope with pain, why cant we just bond together and love whats real...eachother!

 

I don't think every believer just made it up, some people are sure they have seen things that proved to them that god, or other spiritual things are real.
I say people overestimate humans, more often. They put humans above all, when we are just one bit, and no better than any other bit of the whole. If I had to guess why love is so hard to find, I'd say ignorance, fear, greed, and laziness are the main reasons. It is easier to just do what one is told, free thinking is so much harder, and you have to take responsibility for it then. Love each other, or just keep on doing what we are now. Change is so inconvenient, we'll likely choose the easy road.

 

Blackguard:

We are at least better to ourselves than to any other 'bit', worse as well, but have more potential to love ourselves than anything else, and more reason to. Some say we should look to how we 'achieve' or fit into the whole, but 'humanity' is in itself no goal. We already have it.

I suggest the superhuman!

 

true, humans are no better than anything else, were not as sucky as we make ourselves out to be though, if we try(jefferson airplane-wont you try lol). yes i think there might b e some genuine experiences to lead people to spirituality. ignorance, greed, laziness, hit the nail on the head.

 

Hola

Life in our moden world is spent working for future position.
But when do we get there.??
A direct result of this is Relaxxx's comment on religions in a harsh enviroment.
[so little for us now, but a new life will be so easy]

Blackguard says 'a next life' is.
And so it may be. Occam would not turn down the opportunity to
continue the adventure.
Only a fool or an ignorant rejects what is possible.
An open mind is our greatest strength.

Freedom_Man
Says live for 'now', true.. For there is only one time. NOW.
all else is words. [past and future are CONCEPTS]

Pixieface
Yes it seems all that is not hydrogen is 'made in stars'
Thus most of us is star stuff.
But the [atomic] heavy parts of us will most likely stay on earth till the end.
[phosphorus and calcium embedded in the crust]

Occam

 

"Now" itself can be deemed a concept as well when using it to say "Now" is not the past, and "Now" is not the future.

So where does that leave "Now"?

The present moment?

By using it in this context we give this concept three aspects ... past, present, and future. And if "past" is a concept and "future" is a concept, then "present", or "Now" is a concept.

What one may be looking for in using "Now" as being separate from time concepts or from all conceptual restraints is a point where all concepts cease to be. A concept, like all things in a universe that is continually in a state of change, has the same characteristics as feelings ... they arise, have a duration, and cease ... thought arises, has a duration, and ceases ... feeling arises, has a duration, and ceases ... action arises, has a duration, and ceases.

Without "concepts" there would be no arising, no duration, and no ceasing. There would be no duration and ceasing because there would be nothing that arose to endure and cease. When arising ceases, duration ceases. When duration ceases, cessation itself ceases. The process of arising from a point of beginning to a point of collapse, and from the point of collapse to the cessation of collapse is the duration of that which arises to its cessation.

This entire process is dependent on time-based notions.

If there were no time-based notions, nothing would arise. There would be no measurement of something arising from a beginning, and there would be no beginning. Since there would be no arising, and no beginning, there would be nothing to endure, and nothing to cease.

So, imho, it's not possible for people who have developed their entire perception of reality around concepts and notions to live in the "Now", much less realize "Now" without conceptualizing it as time-based notions.

HTML:

 

ok, so to live in the NOW (which I thought I did but now don't, thank you lol) I can hold no concepts of Now to be in the now? or any concepts at all? well aren't I in the now? im not in the past or future but am I in the actual Now? and if not can u fix it? lol
yes it's me I'm making fun of not you although I get so much pleasure out of the post I don't know if it matters that I don't get it. It's the things you don't understand that are fun in life.
peace man
Andrew
ps oh if you can get me in the now that would be appreciated though lol

 

Okay, so maybe I should have continued my last statement to include that the only way possible to live in a "Now" that is not time-based or concept-based, is to understand first, then realize (make real) that such ideas are possible and then to start integrating them into the mindset. By not holding on to things already gone (past), and not expecting things that haven't happened yet (future), one can slowly remove these two concepts. And once these two concepts have been eradicated, then the concept of a present will no longer be a valid concept because then one would not have a concept of past to say that "Now" is not the past, and no concept of future to say that "Now" is not the future.

But then, that would involve retraining the mind to perceive reality differently now, wouldn't it?

That would mean work ... *winces*

HTML:

 

Occam hunches his shoulders
Hides his face between his knees
Sheds a small tear for what exists.

NOW

It seems that the love he has for many, the great pool of understanding
he has gained in 4 decades of searching,
is but an existential prostethis.

The 'now' is but a concept????

Without ONE thing being real, just concepts.
Reality is nothing
Concepts come from real things.
Real things may be concepts.
But they are real things FIRST.

The tear occam shed for the first word of his daughter is more real than any concept that ever was.
It was shed in a thing called the NOW.

Occam

 

(Damn easy to be banned in this 'free speech' joint, but I'm back!)

Occam is right,

Any concept presupposes at the very least the existence from which it arises.

But I wanted to add, that since existence is inherent, and 'the moment' is how we conceive it, then the past and future must also be more than concept, however unknowable.

 

Are you sure about that?

 

ahhhh, Ok I smell what you are cooking now and was looking at it wrong, the post and the now lol
My g/f was explaining it on the cell phone as best she could after I read it. Rather annoying how she always gets it and I don't lol
thanks man
peace bro