War isn't a part of human nature

If it were, the phrase "war is hell" would not be true, because we would live for combat and feel at home in a war setting. The truth is that war is an instrument of small minded but very powerful people who use it to obtain even more power for themselves. These are people who were exposed to power and become addicted to it before they had a chance to develop their imaginations, expand their minds, and become aware of the higher needs of humankind.

They are such sad and empty people that they think that by obtaining more and more of the same thing (power), they will one day feel fulfilled. By the end of their lifespan, they die unhappy and so do the thousands of unnamed individuals who died fighting for the personal struggles of the powerful. This is true in war settings but also the corporate settings, where the selfish and greedy struggle to accept themselves for their power while they're impoverished workers struggle not only psychologically but physically. Power is an addiction, but unlike the heroin addict who suffers his or herself, the person caught in it's throes takes many lives with them.

I believe that human beings do not live for war, they live to love and to aid one another to appreciate the joys of love. Nothing feels better than to love and to feel loved. In comparison war is a soul numbing and desensitizing experience that only leaves a wake of physical and psychological destruction in it's wake.

Was war once a part of human nature? I say no: at the point when we developed imaginations capable of costructing peaceful alternatives, war became obsolete. I'd imagine that this moment came very early in the evolution of the homo sapien.

We've been experiencing ignorant bloodshed for thousands and thousands of years but the excuses end here. With the advent of the internet, relatively high literacy rates (and we still need to work on that globally) and readily available information, there is no reason for this tremendously costly and immature game to continue.

Spread the word while we're still breathing.

 

I disagree, I think that war and conflict in general are a huge part of human nature. I don't really like human nature.

 

Just because something is not pleasant does not mean it is not in human nature. Territorial conflicts are ingrained in not only our species but all species. Against our nature, I think you have some history to read. Overcoming humans basic nature is the hardest, almost impossible barrier, to peace.

 

I think conflict is part of human nature to some extent, but I don't think humans in general tend to lean towards conflict anymore then they would lean towards love, compassion, solidarity...
I think the problem with war at present is that it's fought for the wrong reasons, why in turn leads to a countless people being caught in the crossfire. People will fight war for any reason, and nowadays a whole country can get swept up into war without really knowing the cause of the conflict.

 

It's the old dominant male gets to impregnant all the females in the tribe thing. You'd think with the passing of thousands of years the male libido would get beyond that, but power corrupts, and in modern times the fever even infects the females of the species.

What I find strange is the motivation of subordinates to do the fighting for the alphas, what's in it for them...the ugly cast offs? Or promises of Nirvanah? No one can give that to you or force you to labor for it. It's there for you to find on your own. But I guess it's like gambling we look for the easy path...and we know how many gambles pay off.

 

I agree.

Wars are the product of governments and bureaucracies, not people. No war is natural, and it is NOT human nature for human beings to kill off their own species. If people would refuse to stop fighting the wars of the rich and ruthless men who wage them, there would be no wars. Every war has been the result of psychological manipulation. Nobody wants war, except the people profitting from these wars, who use the people to do their dirty work.

Again, you need to remember this quote:

 

Most primate groups, when they come into contact with other, comepetive primate groups, go apeshit (in the truest sense of the word). There are plenty examples of chimpanzee genocide, so not only is conflict/war a part of human nature, it's a part of nature nature as well. if you don't think that people are willing to kill and be killed in order to have a greater chance at survival, then you are person who grew up in an affluent society where your basic needs were never in jeopardy.

 

hah, yeah, okay. but governments and bureaucracies are the product of some kind of sycophantic herd-like need for an arbitrary authority figure to impose "order", that almost everyone seems to think are essential.

 

That's true, but this isn't some instinctive thing. It's been conditioned into people. The survivial instinct that people are born with has been conditioned out of them by the system we live in, that tells them we need the government to keep us safe and be our daddy.

Yeah, we need them like the field mouse needs the hawk. There hasn't been a single government in history that hasn't been predatory. Governments simply do not exist for the people's best interests.

 

I believe conflict is both very human and very natural, however war is an occurance that is fueled by a collective society and/or societies that stems from an initial conflict that was taken to an extreme.

War is really only a good thing if you win or accomplish what you have set out to do.

 

Guys, war exists because of the state. How many wars in history have been started by the People? Most have been started by the state. hundreds of millions of people died in the 20th century because of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Saddam, Kim Jong I and II, ect. I can go on and on.

You can believe whatever you want. The fact of the matter is that people most of the time want to find a peaceful way to solve conflicts. Only a few people force most of the population into war. War is carried out by powerful people because power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

Needs to be posted again for the youth of today who probably couldn't tell your who Hermann was. You could probably replace that picture and the citation with any number of names like Cheney, Bush, Rumsfield, Ashcroft, Wolfowitz, Kristol, Perlman et al.

 

War in the industrial age isn't about the conflict of the common person, as Goering said, it is about the desires and ambitions of those in power. The common person is doing all he can do to survive, he is not concerned about gaining new territory or crushing those different than himself. These are the desires of the powerful few, who use their control of the distribution of information to manipulate the common man and rally them behind them.

The modern definition of war is not natural. Territorial behavior and aggression may be natural (keep others away from your food, shelter, and mate/offspring) and maybe even necessary on a tribal level in past times where resources were scarce and life hung in the balance but contemporary war has little to do with this.

I believe that the current war is a battle for resources, for fossil fuels. However we do not need to be starving for fossil fuels to the point where we are engaging in war as a solution. There are alternatives to fossil fuels that can be used and harnessed, but the selfishness of the few (alternatives would crumble the empire they've created) prevents this from occurring. As you know selfishness is not a permanent problem; it can be overcome. When the corporate monsters that have grown off of the bloated back of fossil fuel consumption realize what they must do and do it, war will become obsolete.

We already have everything on this planet needed to provide for all 6 billion+ of us. The problem does not lie in a lack of resources but instead on efficient distribution of those resources due to the unfulfilled and greedy few. Their power and wealth puts them in a position where they can no longer relate to the universe around them, causing them to suffer more spiritually and psychologically than they would have if they possessed less power and resources. They are alienated beyond what they can understand, so far removed from the delicate balance of life in the universe. It really must be a terrible existence in many ways.

The problem is spiritual in nature, a lack of awareness of what is going on outside our windows, and the importance of every fragile and precious piece of the greater whole, the web of life of our bioshere. There is so much blindness to this issue, and it is the most important issue to understand at the moment, to continue to exist in this universe.

The real problem and motivation for war is rooted in an absence of understanding and knowledge about the human condition and its role in the universe around it. We are not simple minded animals who mate and devour and consume everything we have the power to. We have limitless power within our minds and our imaginations, and the potential to possess the sense and compassion to use this knowledge to benefit the universe.

Conservatives sell human beings short, and it is difficult for me to forgive them for that personally. Their mentality and their policies are marred with ignorance and a desire to remain at an animal level, never progressing to higher levels of understanding and existing.

The ingredients for heaven on earth are all around us, but the cooks in the kitchen are all novices.

 

That small group of powerful people isn't on the front lines. If soldiers simply refused to fight, war would not happen. But they don't, and I would suggest this is a good example of physical conflict in human nature.

 

Then it will [if it is not already] be about land water and religeon.

So what happens when a group of people kill another group of people to get possesion of say a water supply. Or a supposed ''freedom fighter'' kills vast swathes of people to ''free'' another set of people ?.

Maybe it is our limitless minds that creat ideological differencies - thereby causing ideological ideas that we have wars about. Nothing to do with natural resources or land just ''ideas''.

Every political ideology is capable of WAR.

 

I like your way of thinking. You give me hope for the new generation.

 

The current war is a battle for control and status. People at the top have everything they can have in this world. The only thing they do not have is total control of the minds and behavior of many.