Why is the FAIR TAX good for you and good for America???

H.R. 25: Fair Tax Act of 2007
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-25

It is in committee, but that really does not mean much as most bills never make it out of committee. If you support this bill then it would probably be a good idea to write those on the House Committee on Ways and Means to let them know it has support.

 

I'd argue that the American government was helping the poor, but I would suggest that Western-Europe does more. They recognize the importance of business but accept that government can act as a strong bulwark against their excesses.

If the government doesn't speak for the poor and downtrodden, then you're going to be left with patch implementation of services at best as other groups step in or no services at all as people act in their own self interest.

 

Yes, of coarse Europe governments do more for the poor. The European system is set up differently than it is here. While I am not all that knowledgable about European politics and governments I do believe that Europe is more Socialist. For the most part the US is not. Since this is fairly off topic I will just agree to disagree on this aspect and not discuss different government ideologies.

So back on the Fair Tax ...

I don't think this has been mentioned but it is another big benefit to the poor under the FairTax. Only new goods are taxed. Used goods are not taxed. Everything is only taxed once, so used cars, clothes, houses, etc are not going to be taxed. The poor are not buying very many new goods so this is a big benefit to them, and anyone else that does not wish to buy new.

 

I know this'll make me sound like complete politics dork (what can I say other than you got me), but I was watching Mike Gravel (the former Alaskan senator) announce his run for the Democratic nomination for the presidency last night on C-SPAN, and he said he was in favor of a flat tax during the Q&A session.

 

see the problem is though is that if your bill gates, you have got enough stuff to only buy like a poor person cause there is nothing else you want, so you by normal foods from wal-mart as if you where middle class and so you have middle class taxes instead of rich guy taxes that supports the lower class and there for we will have less to no more programs for those who need it. the problem with your theory is that you assume rich people buy lots of stuff. at first they do, but then they dont. it is simply unworkable under our gov.

 

why is it fair that rich people should automatically have to pay "rich guy taxes" to support some lazy ass who refuses to find a job that is harder than cooking fries..........

i understand some people need help but a lot of the people below poverty lever are there because they don't want to work hard enough to make it to a different tax bracket....

even when the "newness" of being rich rubs off, the "rich guy" is still going to buy more expensive stuff, he is not going to shop in the clearance isle of the grocery store and buy dented cans of soup that cost 50 cents. He would also be paying tax on services like lawn care, pool care, health care....... It balances out! Do you have a maid or a pool guy?? Nope, so you won't pay taxes on that kinda stuff... But mr rich man will....

 

There's no such thing as a free lunch, if government needs "X" dollars from personal incomes, then the only thing that can change is the distribution of the taxes - who pays what. There are no overall savings if revenues stay the same. Right now the poor have lower rates than the well-off, go to a flat tax and that reverses.

Going to flat tax doesn't eliminate the IRS, the tax still has to be collected and the taxpayers audited to be sure they're paying. The only difference would be that the IRS calls on retailers instead of citizens. Don't think that will improve collections, either, because some businesses simply don't pay their taxes. No fancy accounting schemes, they just don't send the money in. They get caught at about the same rate as citizen deliquents, but it's easier for a business to vanish while in arrears than for a citizen to do so.

 

I think I'll always be instinctively against this (our daughter was born when I was 17, the tax and benefit system help me go to college), but I have one question.

This will only work better than income tax if the tax is set up so that it can't be avoided by anyone. Companies can avoid paying sales tax (at least in europe they can) on certain items, the theory being that otherwise the end consumer would end up paying tax on the tax that the retailer paid. For example if the tax rate was 10%, and the retailer bought it for $100 before tax, he would pay $110. The retailer then passes it on straight away without mark-up and the consumer pays $121 (10% on $110).

At the moment, companies can avoid this by reclaiming (or not paying) when they buy their products. But if this was still in place when flax taxes came in, the well off would set up companies, buy everything through the firm, and avoid paying the sales tax.

So my question is, how do you stop this from happening without closing the loophole and massively increasing prices?

I'm sorry if that whole spiel comes across as "teacherish" but I was trying to explain why I've such a bug up my butt about this.

 

Poor Mr. Rich guy. I wonder how many cans of 50 cent soup he eats a year?

 

The government is in place for the public good. If that is fulfilled by supporting poorer members of society while taxing the richer, that's how it is. I very much doubt the public good would be served as fully with a flat sales tax.

You call it the fair tax, but I think it is less fair than the current system, because it hurts the poor, those who can least afford it, more than the rich. It is, in essence, discriminatory, and designed to benefit those in power.

 

Even if the rate is flat, the rich still pay more, because they have more income. Also, the flat tax doesn't have to start on the first dollar, it could kick in at a higher income.

 

With a sales tax, income doesn't enter the equation. Unless you're thinking some kind of tax return for those poor enough to qualify, which would still require some form of IRS.

 

Then it would follow that they should cover more of the burden. As it is the rich only pay Social Security withholding on the first $94,200 earned. After that the rich no longer pay a percentage on their pay. Think about it, a worker that makes 300,000 a year only pays SS tax on the first 100,000, the rest is gravy. Don't tell me they don't need SS, how many refuse those payments?

 

Do you really believe there are many people are like that? I don't doubt some are but do you really think people would do grunt jobs if they could do better?

 

Any tax isn't good for you or America!

 

Reading, writing and arithmatic are tree life skills most people learn in pubicly funded schools, suggesting you're statement is just plain wrong (unless you think that the "three Rs" aren't good for you or America of course).

 

I don't understand this

why do you say it would hurt the poor more?

shouldn't it affect them the same as it does now?
I mean, people on welfare don't pay sales tax
and fuck the homeless
but as far as the childless minimum wage employee, how could it possibly do any more damage?

 

I don't think everyone is like that. however, I know a lot of people like that.......... My ex husband refuses to get a job that pays him legally to avoid paying child support, and when he does get a job that pays him legally he works at a car wash and tells me "It's the only place that would hire me" after job hunting for two days............. he has been laying carpet for years, he must be bad at it if he can not find a job doing this that pays well and is legally paying him......................



Sometimes people give up after a week of looking for a good job and take shit jobs, normally I only take the shit jobs and keep them untill I find something that pays better, but a lot of people who really could find a better job don't on purpose because they do not want more responsibility........................




I really do beleive this, I think Americans are getting lazy and a lot of people don't live up to their potential because of this!


I used to live in rent based on income housing and once people got comfortable there, they didnt do anything to better themselves and move out.... they would keep working part time at McDonalds & Hooters so they could live there and only pay $125 rent a month!!!!!!!!!! I understand some people need the help...



I am sorry, it isnt fair to the people who actually work hard to have to hold hands of people who dont want to work and want to get a free ride!!!!!!!

 

I don't think it will hurt the poor, I just think it will even the playing field and everyone will pay taxes, even people who get paid under the table.... Its not going to make taxes go up or down, it is just a better way to pay em and it is a better way to make sure everyone pays them.....

 

If there were no schools funded by taxes, do you suppose no one would learn these things?