How we CAN drive gas prices down!

The thing is, I don't think $3 a gallon is a lot for gasoline. Prices are much higher on average in Europe and I think Americans are living in a fairy tale to a degree. I really do believe that the average American's perception of the value of gasoline is distorted. All things being relative, we were probably paying far too little for gasoline considering how relatively scarce the substance is. We're talking about a resources that takes a long, LONG time to form. Gasoline is a temporary fuel source of course, and the switch to alternatives is no longer a idealistic fantasy but a necessity.

What aside from an increase in gas prices do you think is going to force the common populace to conserve fuel and adopt a more eco-friendly lifestyle? As long as the illusion of cheap unlimited gasoline persists, the consumer will thoughtlessly, well, consume.

Fuck gasoline and oil, they are dirty and ultimately not very dependable energy sources in the long run but there needs to be a catalyst for change and if a little dose of reality (prices closer to what those in Europe pay) is what is needed, then so be it.

We cannot keep living in this "there is plenty of gasoline for everyone, forever" mentality. There reaches a point where people need boundaries just for the sake of preserving the quality of life of the general populace, like deer that need natural predators to keep their numbers in check and to keep them from mindlessly devouring all the food sources in their area into extinction.

Hey man, I would love a world where we can all be free to live how we want, but currently too many of us are too preoccupied with devouring what is most precious. Priorities are so deranged right now that if everyone had the power to do what they wanted, consume what they wanted, there wouldn't be much left.

There are too many people on this planet, to be honest. I honestly believe that is a serious cause of many of the environmental problems faces the planet. Hate to say it, but people are having too many children and living too long. The stress on our natural resources and our environment is considerable, and it is only worsening every year.

It's a somewhat callous thing to say but people need to take responsibility into their own hands, stop having as many children, and embrace death as a natural part of the life cycle. If that were to happen, the issue of energy efficiency wouldn't be nearly as pressing.

 

$3 is a lot when you consider that, back in the 90s, we were only paying $1-something. Have you ever asked yourself who is profiting from this? Do you know how much the former chairman of Exxon received in his retirement package? I find it rather funny that you don't care that hard-working, low income people are having to pay more money they don't have so the big-wigs at the top can make even more money they don't need. It has nothing to do with a shortage of fuel. Why do you think the big oil companies are promoting the "peak oil" farce? The artificial scarcity scam they have helped to create only benefits the big oil companies, as it gives them an excuse to charge more for gas while providing the government an excuse to introduce more fascistic legislation and big-government control, dictating our personal habits and how we must live our lives.

I am all for doing away with fossil fuels, but the fact is those in control do not want to end our dependence on foreign oil because there is a massive monopoly built around it. So instead, they give us these "alternatives" which are bound to fail. Of course they will not allow us to have the FREE ENERGY technology that does in fact exist, that could end our dependence on fossil fuels tomorrow. There is technology that can make pollution-free fuel out of WATER, so why is THAT being suppressed? Why is ethanol, of all things, the #1 alternative.

And just because Europeans are paying more, it doesn't mean I support them being raped and pillaged either by the oil companies and their lackey bureaucrats. The fact is Americans soon WILL be paying upwards of $5 for gas, and there is also talk from the global elitists that there were be a UN-mandated global CO2 tax imposed of every gallon of gasoline purchased. It has nothing to do with a bunch of rich, white men wanting to save the environment they have done so much to help destroy. It has everything to do with total control of your life and the lives of everyone living on this planet.

Don't be so naive.

 

I don't buy gas everyday so I won't be making any impact at all on the gas price. I'm sure most people don't buy gas everyday.... this idea is just a pointless waste of time.

 

Don't be so arrogant to assume that oil will exist forever and that people should be given free reign to consume it with reckless abandon. Even if it takes us fifty years to arrive at peak oil, it is a crisis that must be addressed. We are consuming oil faster than it is being formed, can we both agree with that? We are consuming oil so much faster than it is being formed that we are in risk of running out of readily available, cost efficient to mine fossil fuels sometime in the next hundred years or so (and that's being VERY liberal). The only question remains is the specific time frame for that occurence.

But does it really matter if it is twenty years off or a hundred? Why not conserve oil until we can arrive at an alternative that works? Why should we take a leap of faith and just assume people will be socially and environmentally conscious if they don't have to when that has never been proven to be the case? People have been selfish for thousands of years and they still are. They care about the environment only when they HAVE to, which is why I would do anything to promote peak oil and global warming fear even if they did turn out to be exagerrated. Anything that turns attention to the well being of the planet is good I think. The ends justify the means if it stops us from killing ourselves. If I lie to a person to sneak them medicine to save their life, am I really doing evil? I guess you would say so but there is where we diverge.

Oh, and do you really think the prospect of $5 a gallon gas prices benefits the oil companies? Do you really think consumers will shell out hard earned money for such prices to a degree that will correlate to improved profits? I think that is a pretty big assumption, and it takes a significant leap of faith to assume that we'll continue consuming at the same rate as always, just emptying more and more into the bottomless wallets of the oil tycoons. I think people will be more conservative with their fuel usage which is ultimately positive and the point of my argument and why I support fuel taxes.

It sucks for the low wage earner as he is hit the hardest but is that news to anyone by now? That is an obvious negative trait of capitalism. I mean, that isn't an oil problem, but a capitalism problem. I think a solution would be an escalating tax that would be directly correlated to the fuel efficiency of your personal automobile. This way the SUV and other gas guzzling car drivers would be pulling their weight, literally, while those who purchase more economic vehicles would benefit. That kind of system would encourage one to be more efficient with fuel use.

I really just don't see how keeping oil cheap and readily available is going to do anything to curb our species's dependence on it. It sounds nice to give the working man a break, he definitely deserves it, but think of the future of the planet, not just the well being of the contemporary individual.

Obviously the oil companies are too powerful right now and they are preventing realistic alternative energy sources from surfacing with all of their considerable power. Their lives depend on fossil fuel dependence, and they will do anything it takes to preserve their way of life.

Mega-corporations suck, as they are as selfish as you or I but with a billion times more power. However they serve their purpose, as does everything in this world.

I have great faith in humanity, ultimately. I visualize a wiser, saner, and more progressive civilization, but the people inhabiting it do not look like you or I. They exist in an advanced state of selflessness that can only be achieved through a complete mastery of the self.

It's a far off dream, but I think all of the nasty shit that's come before us, the genocides, the slavery, corporate evil etc. have been stepping stones leading to a reality that trasnscends everything before it. It sucks but we are a better planet in the end for slavery, for the holocaust, contemporary genocide, for all of these hard earned lessons, and corporate greed and capitalism is just more learning experiences that we are going through.

The important thing is to keep the planet alive for future generations to populate and look back at our mistakes and learn from them. That is the paramount goal IMO and anything that contributes to that learning process is useful. I will not say good, but useful.

Personally I think this country needs to head in a socialist direction with an even bigger government regulated by a stronger system of checks and balances. You would prefer no government at all I assume? That is how we differ as individuals. I wish we were ready for a utopian anarchy where we can all make rational and sensible decisions for ourselves and others but I don't see it in the near future. We just aren't there yet IMO.

 

Well, you need to understand that socialism is just another form of capitalism. It's monopoly capitalism. The big banks that gave us capitalism, created socialism as a false opposition to capitalism. Those who control the money control all sides, and they use every side to their benefit. You think that more government control is the answer, but when have governments ever served the people's best interests? If you knew the history of government, you would know they have always existed for the few at the top, to keep the many at the bottom in line and paying their taxes, so these elitists can continue living in the utmost luxury. You see the government as a good shepherd, as do many, and this is why we're in the position we are in. When has more government ever equated to more freedom? Like many people, you do not understand the true purpose of government. You believe it exists to serve and protect you, so you have bought and swallowed their poison.

It's also funny how you have this naive belief that a bigger government will result in more checks and balances. Well, the bigger the government has become over the years, the more corrupt and unaccountable it has become. This is what happens with BIG GOVERNMENT run by multinational corporations.

As far as oil, I have already discussed REAL alternatives that would not only end our dependence on foreign oil, but completely liberate humanity as we know it. You decided to ignore this and instead go off on another rant, lecturing about people going hog-wild in their consumption of gasoline. This technology I am referring to has been suppressed by the same people who want to suck us dry with global CO2 taxes, while imposing more control over the people in the name of "saving the planet" (which is a lie). You call this socialism -- I call it fascism. But really, the two go hand in hand and are essentially the same thing. At the very least, socialism is the road to fascism. This applies to corporatism as well, which is a really socialism and capitalism combined, which is what we have today.

 

I'm hoping you are joking .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_fuel_protest
http://www.fuelprotest.com/index.php

Imho it is impossible to remove ourselves from a oil within the next 30-50 years. I think slowly but surely it is being done - a fairly good e.g is New york cabs being turned ''green'' .

I think Pressed_Rat's derision of what the UN is doing is misplaced but I do appreciate it fits in with his mindset so fair play to him - BTW Pressed_Rat I thought you once bought into ''peak oil'' - I dunno can't fully remember.

The big oil companies at the end of the day are ''energy suppliers'' they will continue to provide ''energy'' in what ever form it takes and continue to make vast amounts of money.
Once oil is no longer viable do people really think they will close for business ?.

BP alternative energy

''An area 200 miles square covered with solar panels could provide all the electricity the world needs''

''Energy is essential to our way of life, to economic progress and to raising living standards. We believe it is essential that industry plays an active role in the ongoing dialogue about the future of energy -- one grounded in reality, focused on the long term and intent on finding viable solutions.''

http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Campaign/energynow.asp

So I do not think ''big oil companys '' have a big stake in maintaining oil as a energy supply.

 

I actually do agree with you about the government serving itself as a primary goal, but what is achieved as a byproduct is that we have this democracy where everyone is free to understand the way our system works and manipulate it to obtain personal power.

The only way I can see a nation without government existing is if the change comes from within. Existence precedes essence, we create our own meaning and value as well as possible values for others.

You want anarchy, you become part of a model for anarchy. If you want your model for anarchy to consist of violent riots (and I don't know if you do, and I apologize if I'm lumping you in with the other anarchists), well no one is going to want a part of that and your movement will go nowhere. You need to create a model of anarchy in a small isolated area and prove it's effectivess through success and it will spread like capitalism did.

I do not think anarchy is a bogus concept, but I question how effectively it will spread on as an idea in this world, especially when people are connecting it with violence. We've had thousands of years of violence and oppression. Maybe anarchy is the answer for us all, but we need to see it thriving in small pockets first. If it's successful, it will be imitated and will spread.

Obviously it needs to be nurtured and protected from people who will try to sabotage it but that is an important enough topic to be worthy of it's own thread. How can we allow anarchy to exist in a small state without capitalistic interests interfering?

I am in favor of whatever system can end the greed and suffering aspects of the human condition while still preserving and furthering our power as a species.

Educate me on how we will continue to research and advance our technologies without corporations with anarchy, and I will be there with you as that is my biggest concern with it. Technology needs to continue to develop or we are fucked. We cannot stay on this planet. I would rather have suffering and oppression yet a steady technological advancement towards space exploration and beyond (as exists now) than have everyone be happy on earth but for technology to come to a standstill (or even worse decline) so that we will all die together.

I don't want to see humanity go the way of the dinosaurs and it WILL happen if we don't flee this planet sooner or later. Tell me how anarchy will see to this issue, as that interests me more than anything else concerning anarchy.

Our system sucks in many ways but at least we are taking technological leaps every year.

 

It's not fair to generalize all Americans as having this selfish mindset. Our society isn't set up like Europe with mass transit available to everyone. I live in rural Kentucky (and I'm not from here before you start ripping on hillbilly's and rednecks). The closest shopping is about 5 miles from my house. Trekking 5 miles with a one year old baby in 90 degrees and higher heat is child endangerment. If my town had mass transportation - I would use it gladly!! For true Social change to occur in the United States, the Elite must lead the way. Slowly, they are coming around and recognizing that we are making an impact on global conditions.

Since you don't realize that the American population is primarily struggling right now to make ends meet, I can forgive your retardation on the subject matter. Not everyone can hop on a train and go to Washington D.C. to protest our reckless, selfish, and uncaring government. The closest train or bus station to me is an hour away anyway!

I do what I can to reduce my carbon footprint. We do all the errands in one day (shopping, bill paying, etc...). We are the only family on our street that recycles, I set the thermostat to 78 degrees instead of 68 degrees like most people around here. I keep the lights off as much as humanly possible and we drive a 4 cylinder Nissan to conserve oil and gas consumption. That is the best I can do until I complete graduate school, get a real job, and get the hell off the grid. So quit blaming all Americans for global warming!! I cannot make George Bush realize that he's a fucking idiot and that if we don't change our ways NOW, then my one year old son doesn't have a chance of a clean planet. Europeans use just as much electricity as I do! Obviously you have a computer - so don't even try to play innocent in fossil fuel consumption.

I do NOT agree with our administrations policies or blatant disregard for environmental issues. And it's sad because everyone I associate with feels the same way as me.

 

I second that loco-motion.
(They don't call me Crazy for nuttin)

 

Yeah, why would anyone want to drive them down?

 

totally out of date - old fashioned thinking that bears no relevence to todays situation ! you need to rethink !"!!!!!!

Utter total 100% uneducated bullshit - I mean this is obviously written by someone who just hasnt bothered to educate themselves after reaching school leaving age

 

Do you have anything of substance to say? Didn't think so.

 

yeah basically when we have a world that is over polluted by the USA - for people in the USA to say "mwi mwi mwi gas prices are high OMFG we are victims - " is fucking ridiculous and just shows that some people shouldnt be allowed out the hospital let alone on to the internet !

when you put that in your pipe - light it carefully its fully explosive !

 

Oh high pressed rat or should I call you - dirt pitt in this guise ?

try the one about the american government refusing to make industry pay to make itself more efficient !!!!

try the one about the USA increasing its carbon footprint not reducing it -

then get rid of your dog breath numpty !