http://amethyst-angel.com/cliche.html A lot better than most lists of genre/artistic clichŽs (they don't seem to be letting people add to it without scrutiny, which might explain it). I'm all smug, because the fantasy plot I was working on comfortably avoids all of the ones listed. So yeah, let's talk about stuff.
Well yes and no. There are stories which are told over and over again because they are good, and there are stories that are told over and over again because the writer is lazy. Usually it's when the writer is trying to avoid the really obvious stories that they end up doing cliches (ever see "Adaptation."? The "what if the serial killer, the victim AND the cop are all the same person?!" thing kinda fits what I'm talking about here). I see your point, but there's definitely stuff on that list that you see over and over again, and not because it's particularly good or even makes sense (why does the bad guy live in a horrible desolate wasteland? He's the bad guy, he can afford somewhere nice!). Trust me, there is such a thing as a cliche. I'd be wary of stating otherwise, as it can make you look like you're defending really bad writing.
and remember good writing is never pompous and turgid, there is an example of turgid pomposity below !
its a cliche to say cliches exist, they only exist if you think they are a cliche. Kids who are seeing something for the first time will not think its a cliche. Ok also if cliche's existed, something like picking your nose or masturbating could be called a cliche but usually both at the same time would be called a fetish
OK, I'll concede that you don't have to worry about cliches if: a) you have no desire to challenge your audience b) your prefered audience are seeing everything (as in books) for the first time. Yes, you're absolutely right. If someone has never seen anything before, cliches don't exist. But why would you want to appeal to an audience with no existing critical faculties? Wouldn't that suggest that you didn't have much faith in your skills as a writer?
no usually audiences are complete dunces - they read the daily mail and the other tabloid newspapers that surely shows what cretins most are. Ok then just say fuck you to any elitist snob that thinks the guardian or independent is so cool - as for the other broadsheets well - the term cocksucking arse bandit shit breathed cunts comes to mind for readers of those so yeah - write for morons and make money or write for elitists and hope they might just call it art - erm..... handg on ???? oh I think I'll take the money lets face it the average person in britain is only 20 times smarter than the average citizen of the USA its hardly reaching for the stars is it ?
So what's your point? Everyone is dumb so you shouldn't ever try to do anything that's too smart for them to appreciate? Do you have any pride left?
no, my point is that people who make the mmost money out of writing are those who cater to the greatest number and thats how it should be, elitist crap is pretentious nonsense that is for the vainglorious reason of fame and validation, I suspect you read the Guardian hahaha - no no hang on you could be THE independent reader or at least 50% of them
Not cliched doesn't equal elitist crap, you're talking shit. I can't believe I'm having to ask this, but have you never heard of hegemony? EDIT: Oh, and for the record, I don't read the papers. You care too much about class. You must be middle class.
No, they exist if most people think they're cliches, and what you are coming out with is the standard (cliched) list of excuses for producing cliched crap. If you actually had any interest in writing as an artform, rather than as a means of pacification a la the mass media, I would have thought you'd want to create something that at least tries to be unique or interesting. Something can have wide appeal without being cliched. I mean, on an admittedly primitive level, look at the massive cult success of Donnie Darko. You can call that elitist if you want, but you'd be wrong; it had wide appeal, and tried to do things differently, and while I'm not a huge fan, I'd take it over Armageddon any day. And that's not all you're saying. You're excusing bland culture on the grounds that it's easily digestible. Adorno would cut you.
well donnie darko is not a cliche and neither is it elitist ! Many people enjoy it ! you call it a cult but again its only got cult status if you believe it has - seems pretty mainstream to me Armaggeddon yes I believe thats a cliche but I dont really know - hmm wait, yes I think.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm sptraaaaassssssssppppppp ! and other fart sounds !!! I wish this forum was in smell surround !
I'd at least put up with your "everything's subjective" analysis ("I am saying cliches only exist if you believe something is a cliche") if you didn't follow it up with: So it's only a cliche if you believe it is unless it's Armageddon. And no, sorry, I don't agree. Donnie Darko was a cult succes, in that it did not gain a major release, but gradually became more popular after a video and DVD release. I mean, it's a textbook cult success. So unless you're arguing that language is all arbitrary (which it isn't, but I won't get to arguing why if you're not because it's very tedious), I don't really get what you're arguing. You just seem to be defending shitty unoriginal writing, and I can't figure out why. If you're arguing that it's "the people's writing" or some shit, that's really horrible.
Everything is subjectiuve name me something that can be registered on the psyche that also has an opbjective quality Always judge a book by its cover !
