who's the BAD GUY?

yeah, we kow it, the multinational corporations, the industries, all wainting to make money and rape the earth.
there is some other reasons: YOU and ME. We are the stupid consumers, WE are the ones enabling them to get richer and richer and we are the ones that WANT to buy that shit and sponsor their pollution and rainforest cutting, and mining (oh yeah we like gold and metals....)
STOP talking about "THEM". cant you see ?? our greed is the back side of the same coin, the frontside being the corporations. we are actually connected, unfortunately.
stop blaming: blame is a way of avoiding to make changes.... if you want to change things, first you have to realize that "there is a problem" (not only with the corporations, but also with our own bad habits and greed), then, you actually have to MAKE AN EFFORT and really CHANGE THINGS, change eating or consuming habits fo instance. Its actually a bit like having to stop smoking: it's real hard, and takes a big effort.

 

well said and i couldnt agree more.. i am far from perfect in this respect but workin to make small changes everyday .. lets all remember big business only got that way because of our overconsumption

 

But YOU are pointing blame, and you are generalizing. I don't rely on the corporations because I live a minimalist lifestyle. I don't buy tons of useless crap that I don't need. Therefore, I am doing my part. Unfortunately, materialism dominates western culture, and there is no changing that until people change their mindset.

Sure the people aid the corporations by their lifestyles. But the government subsidizes the same corporations responsible for much of the pollution, and with corporatism, you have a situtation where the corporations and the government have merged. So how can you rely on the government or believe anything they say when they obviously have ulterior motives?

 

At the moment I blame the chinese and Indian goverments - they are the ones stopping progress on the environment [throughout the world]..

 

What???? They are only filling a need for low priced labor and goods that the global market is seeking. Why are they at fault? Isn't that what outsourcing was all about?

Isn't that why the US refused to abide by the Kyoto agreements for years. And now the Bush administration has stripped the environmental laws that were passed in the seventies and eighties.

 

Really... and yet you own a computer.

 

There is no necessary problem. Homogeniality may be the result of human progress none the less. Yet this aseptic attitude toward humanity is built on the problem-solution-mind-set that got us here in the first place. Wish to save the world? Ignore the plea to satiate food banks. Don't fight breast or prostate cancer. Screw the people with AIDS without fucking them. get off your fucking soap box.

 

What enviromental laws have the Bush admin ''stripped away'' and not replaced with something equal to or better than ?..

Yes it was why they refused to [in principle] to abide by the Kyoto ommision targets - I suspect opposition was varied since 1992.
It is not to say they did nothing - it is not to say the Chinese and Indian goverments did nothing - it is to say - IF they had all jumped on board THEN a NEW framework may have not been needed now - something the US is pushing NOW.
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3483894&postcount=32
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239455

That I suspect is the reason China and India did not ratify the Kyoto protocol - . It - in the end does fall back onto how the economy is going to be effected. If we do not condone the Chinese and Indian goverments [It seems full responsibility is always levelled at the US] - then why should that consideration not be granted to the US ?.
IF the US China and India and too a lesser degree [pardon the pun] Australia had ratified the Kyoto protocol then the paradigm would be a lot different now.
They [China / India] are at fault because the US was supposed to ignore the economic realities and sign - the Chinese and Indians - seemingly could ''get away with it''.

So I am being prejudiced - i'm blameing the Indian and Chinese goverments and calling them the ''bad guys''.

 

What's the matter, don't you guys like money? I'm all for it if it makes money. Hey I don't mind cutting down a tree or two if it keeps the loggers in business. You DO understand they need a job, don't you??

 

I don't mind people chopping down trees - as long as it is in a sustainable way.
To be honest only the most reactionary poster will rise too your bait.

 

you DO understand a troll needs fed or it will die, don't you?

 

That argument was used to convince people to open more local land to logging. And the company brought in the loggers and logged and left. The locals got no jobs (other that waiting tables for the temporary residents), little of the money made in the process and what were clean streams have become muddy from the unstable soil left bare.

Clear environmental thinking takes jobs into account (we are part of the environment). And balances its value against competing interests. Corprorate profits should not be confused with jobs.

 

Because I disagree that makes me a troll?

Why didn't the locals already have jobs? And aren't all streams "muddy"? I mean, it's mud and rock under that water, right??

 

Blackline - you be a idiot.

 

no, ive seen you in other threads... you have very troll-like qualities

 

its a vicious circle.

 

I agree that the loggers need jobs.Sure. What happens when there isn't a substancial amount of trees to keep them working? Not to mention all the animals that need the trees(forests) to SURVIVE!!!!

 

^^yeah i totally agree, i even did a persuasive speech on saving the rainforest for english about a month or two ago.

 

no no no, it's the WORMS!!!! :stunned:

Scientist Implicates Worms in Global Warming
Jim Frederickson, the research director at the Composting Association has called for data on worms and composting to be re-examined after a German study found that worms produce greenhouse gases 290 times more potent than carbon dioxide.

Worms are being used commercially to compost organic material and is in preference to putting it into the landfill. The German government wants 45% of all waste to be composted by 2015.

"Everybody... thinks they can do no harm but they contribute to global warming. People are looking into alternative waste treatments but we have to make sure that we are not jumping from the frying pan into the fire," said Frederickson.

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=63227

 

^^^ haha, great post!
I read that in nepal and india they realized that cows were burping too much, and that was creating a big part of the global warming... so they were doing some serious scientific research: how to change the diet of cows, a diet that will not make them burp any more, or less.
BUT: instead of focusing on those small things, maybe we should STOP to eat meat, and eat less dairy products, or none at all. But then you need to do something yourself,an effort, the hard way.... and in this age and time, it's a totally a forgotten way. We have all become weak and soft.