Assumptions about God that piss me off.

all asumptions about 'god' or 'gods' are equally deceptive, whether by believers or nonbelievers. and everything anyone thinks they know about the subject, that is anything that can be put into worlds, is delusion and self deception.

whatever is there is whatever is there. whatever we say about it, is only our words and our saying them.

and yes, that includes the words of priests and religeous writings.
though some of the latter may be of OTHER interest or merrit.

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Why isn't this in the Christianity forum?

 

Oh well then that's it. I must withdraw my standing on the subject because it was written in the Bible and we all know that all bible stories are factually sound right? Yeah Riiiight!!

 

Yeal, dood, Friend, buddy, pal... I don't know how you do this... but you seem to really go for the throat with your topics don't ya

I do believe I have posted my views on the mechanism, laws, and so forth that I have noted taking place in the universe that take all the guess work out of the bad shit that happens. Maybe you were all to busy fighting, or arguing, or just plained called me delusional for it. Which ever. Shrugs... these events aren't myseterious, nor do they happen by random, chance, or luck. When bad shit happens it's because people either consisouly or subconsiously willed it or hated it, there is a law in the universe that is the one of attraction, and it DOESN'T understand the difference between positive and negative emotions emitted by the human mind. And personally I will go to grave saying this and arguing it. This is the first sack of cement in the foundation of my whole spiritual framework. And it's gonna take alot more then a good jack hammer to bring that whole bitch down.

 

I never said that, in fact I'm very skeptical of the Bible. I was raised a fucking Unitarian my friend! My point is, some people ask, if there is a God, why does He allow such suffering in the world? And the bible answers that question right in the first chapter. I'm not saying with certainty that there was in fact an Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, but it makes for a good analogy. We were cast out of paradise the way a parent tells his kid it's time for him to move out of the house after he's reached a certain age. But like a good parent, God has never abandoned us, He's been there for us lots of times. But if we let the world get screwed up it's up to us to fix it.

 

newo:

how is a chapter from a religious book more realistic than a chapter from any other fictional book. you talk as if it's uncertain and say you are skeptical but you just accept what was written in the first chapter. thats not very skeptical if you ask me.

isn't a lie is also an explanation. i think you should consider that as a good point for analogy as well.

and then at the end of your post:

you again imply that it is certain. you are contradicting your own words and you are not the only one.

if the things written in a book match reality, then it is still too easy to have been made up. i could have made it up. it does not describe the things in reality that we have seen today about the universe, which is more evidence that it is fictional. what progress has religion made? infact, more and more sub types and new types come out. its becomming more and more divided.

Yeal and the gang:

i think you religious/theist people should not misdirect your frustrations at people that saying the things as they are. when the problem is that you cannot accept the things as they are. if the idea does not work then it does not work.

i think metamorphocid answered you appropriately,

but it looks like you did not "listen".
you answered him basicly by saying "god" is no longer in control. would that not mean that it is not perfect. and wouldn't that the defeat the purpose of those prayers. i think it is clear that this is a contradiction.


asilos vulnerado:

your questions seems to assume that no-one can exist without your "god". if this is what you assume, then can you provide evidence first before asking that question? it would be pointless if the people you are asking it to have not agreed with you first.

and your view with too many assumptions is the right view?

ok

 

I do not care if you learn about the "law of attraction" from the new age community, the old testament, or the new testament. There has been wise people through the history of humanity that have been trying to teach us that at a certain point the MIND, enters the universe. The thoughts and feeling emitted by us mold, and shape our expereince. Personally, I haven't been able to truly call myself a believer or make any SENSE out of sacred texts until I caught a glimpse of the power of this law of the universe. Once I did this thing called life i thought was curse started becoming something quite miraculous.

Now this law that well for I believe is there. (SORRY)... in order for it to work you gotta try to be in a state of peace for it to work right. FOR, the law doesn"t exactly distinguish between GOOD or BAD emotions... Therefor it is important to be in a constant state of GRATITUDE FOR WHAT YOU DO HAVE. it prevents you from going around and being negative all the time. Going around and being neagative about everything your experience is only lining up more of the same expereriences to support and keep on giving you the same emotions your experiencing. Thus, for me, the power of prayer. It's a tool to remain thankful, and grateful, to keep on bring forth into my exeperience that which truly desire, and that which will truly make me happy.

Remember prayers are only words, words are only a parcel, which deliver a thought, and a thought is a parcel which delivers an emotion.

I have been saying this since I started posting in here. ITS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE!

LOVE ALL, AT ALL TIMES, UNCONDITIONALLY.

And, to coment on the contradiction... sometimes people go around wanting things that will not truly make them happy... that is to say they are going around trying to please there ego instead of what they truly know deep down is right for them. That inner voice, is our soul. Don't deny it's existence, without a soul we'd have no art, we'd have no music, we'd have no poetry, we'd woudn't have anything that profoundly rock our CORES as humans, we woudnt have stories that inspire us to continue, to strive on as a race.

The contradiction you speak of is quite real, at it is the battle between this Ego (free will), and the soul. But as usual that's just my take on it.

 

personally i don't understand why anyone considers life either a curse or a myracle. like so many other things, it is simply a thing that is. a thing i am as emotionally attatched to as anyone. and that attatchment can engender fear. perhapse that is the curse they are talking about.

but the conditions we experience individually, togather we create them, what we choose, often unawaire of doing so, to have be more and less important to us, all adds up statistically togather, all of us, to create the incentives that motivate the policies that create the conditions. and yes of course, how we look at things has a lot to do with how we experience them. but that isn't nearly the end all and be all of them that what we choose, often unawaire of doing so, to have be more and less important to us.

some things are not up to us. whatever god or gods see fit to exist is not. the diversity of the reality of the universe that surrounds us is not.

some things are. and not messing things up, creating conditions of suffering, turning everything into crap by trying to make it all have to begin and end with symbolic value, these things are. entirely.

life is a thing to explore though. creating and exploring beeing the two great sources of gratification. that everything persued in the hope of gratification that actually returns any, encompassess some aspect of one or the other or both.

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i think the one assumption about god or gods, that pissess me off, more then any of the rest of them, is that there either has to be or has to not be one or more of them.

this is utter nonsense. there doesn't HAVE TO be OR NOT BE, ... wait for it ..., ANY thing, at all what so ever. including us.

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Themnax:

Hold on!

Doesn't what is... have to be...what is?!
Which is not to say it may not become something else. I'm sure you'll agree.

Philosophically, getting pissed off should always have its funny side.

 

I'm a follower of Meher Baba whose views on this can be found in great detail in God Speaks for those interested (1955 Dodd & Meade).

He explains (in my words) that creation is basically "solidified God" - that each drop soul belongs to the one ocean of divinity but each experiences different state/stages of consciousness. Creation is essentially the stage upon which the soul grows from infinite unconsciousness (the void) through gradually increasing consciousness (stone, plant, animal) over eons of time to full consciousness of humans. He explained that physical evolution is meerly a byproduct of the more fundamental evolution of consciousness. This divine process is driven by the accumlation and expression of sanskaras or impressions (karma) that are always seeking balance and expanded consciousness.

Ultimately each one realizes through direct experience the Ocean of divinity but the process is fraught with suffering and opposing experience necessary for the soul's growth and learning. The killer in one life is killed in another; the rapist in one life is raped in another; the king in one life is the slave in another. Each will be brute and hero by turns as the souls slowly matures toward a loving and selfness nature.

There are no accidents and all suffering is the soul's own labor of love to unveil its own true self - which is none other than God. Apparent injustice is simply looking at the pendulum at one end of its swing without seeing the balancing process that is taking place over time. He said today's saint is yesterday's sinner - and that all are destined for the supreme goal just a there is no river that is not winding its way to the sea. But he also says that the goal is NOT faith, NOT intellectual understanding, though these can be helpful, but rather direct, actual experience of this state.

I'm sorry for giving eveyone such a readers digest version of this - there is naturally much more that can be said - but I thought some here might be interested in this quick overview of what He has explained about the mechanics of the universe.

For your consideration...

Jon

 

What's to consider?

"Wait for the state" is the whole of the message ----isn't it?



God speaks to the deluded.

 

His message is to pursue that goal - who you really are. It is hard work overcoming selfishness, low desires. Serving others, loving others, self sacrifice, wears down the limited ego but also brings real pain. Waiting doesn't work because the mountain summit does not come down to the climber. When a river "waits" it becomes a stagnant marsh - though that too brings its own lessons.

You're right - God does speak to the deluded - in order to awaken them to shake off their illusions. Were the deluded to actually listen instead of clinging to their delusions they would realize they are not the limited ego they imagine they are and to which they hold so tightly. They would consider that their limited experiences are not the full measure of all possibility.

 

He mustn't be articulating himself properly or something I suppose.

 

god is icky and non existent.

-thought i would add an annoying comment with no apparent meaning or subject matter to piss off some people. I shall get off my soap box now.

 

ALL assumptions about god or gods are equally offencive wither made by believers or non -believers, because assumptions is ALL ANY OF THEM CAN EVER BE, even as to whether and of what number or nature any such things may or may not exist.

everything we've ever thought of COULD all be perfectly true. it's just that for everything anyone ever has, there are an uncoutable number, maybe as high as infinity minus one, of OTHER possibilities that have just never even been thought of by anyone.

and if you look at that realisticly from a statistical perspective, it is a hell of a lot MORE likely for reality to be something NO ONE has ever thought of, then ANYTHING anyone ever has.

besides, we DON'T have to know anything about what we cannot see, to experience and return its love, wither it be one, many, or as infinitely more likely, something wierder and more unimaginable, then either!

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I don't see the point in this argument, I really don't.

I myself am a strong Christian. I visit different forums from time to time, all of which has the usual religious debate here and there. There are typical Christian answers and typical Atheist answers, I however, have not seen all typical answers here, and to that I give credit.

I witnessed some actual debating and deep thinking, but still some of you are missing the point.

There is not one living person (aside from babies) that hasn't had a chance to receive Christ, you choose to follow him or follow something else. Whether you make the right choice or not, is up to you... sooner or later though you'll deal with the consequences of your actions. Whether they be negative or positive. God cares, had he not, he wouldn't have sent his son.

People dieing from cancer is a horrible thing. However, death is a part of life. Some people expect God to grant us all perfect lives and that's the only way " G0D w1ll ExiIiist duDe33!!". Well guess what? God never promised a perfect life here on Earth.
That being said, happy argument.

 

you're point is exactly as valid as mr "the rest of us are missing the point" christian. and that IS the point. there's a VERY big universe out there, and the odds of what really is, resembling the very finite number of possibilities humans have even considered, are not something i'd bet my life, let alone my soul on.

i find the perspective that there HAS TO NOT BE anything, and that there HAS TO BE what such and such a belief says there is, equally illogical and uncompelling. more possibilities, real posssibilities, then ever have been or even can be imagined exist. which really doesn't favor the likelyhood of it falling within the very limited range of what has been.

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That’s your reason for believing that God cares? Fictional stories that have been used as a tool to kill millions. The love of god, sounds more like anal rape with a side of denial.

 

i see no difference between claiming to know what we do not,
and saying what we know to be false.

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