I have often had and heard people say that during an acid trip (or many other psychedelic trips) that their thought process changes. Not only in what they think, but how they think. Often people report that they think in images. This thinking is much different because normally we think in words. This thinking seems to go much faster (a picture is worth 1000 words) and very interesting. I have often experienced this and related it to dreaming. Dreams have a way of communicating a message through symbols and I believe that psychedelics do the same. Both open our subconcious and explore deep thoughts or issues that we do not normally concious consider. How do you think tripping and dreaming are related? Presumed they were very similar in how they made the mind work, what could we gain from this insight? How could we use psychedelics to explore our minds and lives in new ways?
Well dreaming is total imagination, you are not physicaly there. Psychedelics kind of bend reality into a dreamlike state, but you are there. So you could compare DMT with LSD, and both can unlock something higher that we relate to and can be used to better ourselves. but dreams and trips come from an individual, and any exploring i do seems to only relate to me, or other people just dont understand or care for it.
Very much so! Sometimes I'm in this state where it feels just so unreal and that I'm just drifting off into an adventureous dream all because I am persuing a hallucination. A lot of it is very dream-like!
Again... Assuming there is a coorelation, is there anything that can be gained from this? (Ex. People often use dreams to gain insight on themsleves.) How can we understand the symbolism of this to benefit themselves?
thinkin from a non-spiritual sense. all drugs and lsd give expeciences that are merely an imaginative dream state, thus are just that. people who have crazy trips and start beleiving crazy things are getting lost in their own dream. after some insanity so to speak of, i have come to realise that anything i trip, and conclusions i make that are out of this world, are merely that. and i rationalise them. see its when you start beleiving the things you experience in this dream like state to be real, that you can start calling yourself crazy. alot of people here beleive alot of 'crazy' things. its not that i dont have a spirtitual side. its just that these are just conscouss dreams, and trips. and perhaps merely just that. no matter how much you want to think otherwise. for me to beleive this, i think im pretty sane. once you start beleiving in gods or other non-real things, you are letting your imagination take over. which is psychotic or crazy thinking. i dont know. alot of people wont like what i wrote cause they have firm beleifs thro alot of profound experiences. but perhaps there just that, just crazy experiences, and that getting all wound up in them is letting yourself go crazy. ill take acid with one foot on the ground. no matter what happens i know it was a conscouiss dream, a trip. doesnt mean i wont learn a hell of alot of things about the psychology of the mind, and all that sort of thing.
Granted that there are many things someone can experience on psychedelics that are not anywhere close to reality and in fact relatively "crazy" whose to say that all of these things are irrational? Psychedelics are known to expand creativity and of course there is a balance between creativity and psychosis, but still I think that we can learn a lot from our experiences with psychedelics. We can learn more about ourselves, like internal and external issues. We can learn more about other people. Perhaps we can even learn more about this world we live in, if critically examined. Like dreams, I think that psychedelics can be used to explore internal issues. My question, is where and how do we draw the line between knowledge discovered through mystical states and insane thoughts? How can we use the symbols and ideas we think of in these states and apply them to real-life? How have psychedelic experiences changed people's lives and attitudes for the better and how can other people do that?
exactly. i think what i meant was, i have become wary of the philosophical thinking now. when i trip on acid, i would rather open my mind to 'real world' facts and knowledge. for instace like you said learning about ourselves or the way we interact with others. seeing the deeper meaning to that. or understanding it on the different scale. i guess taking these sort of drugs its hard to stay away from philosphical thinking because it kind of puts you there no matter what you want. its just that i am scared now to really think about those thoughts day in day out, cause i allways end up coming to the depressing conclusion that nothing is real, or on the grand scheme of things nothing matters. and living a life beleiving that is depremental to my life. you see, thats why people created religion. to give people a meaning, or a purpose. for me those philosiphical thoughts end up giving me no purpose. perhaps one trip soon, i will discover somthing philosphical but at the same time, it will give me purpose. not my usual nothing matters as on the grand scheem of things nothing is real theory. but i guess im only saying this cause of previous experiene. who knows. not to far in the future it will all change. i will take one trip to much, or one dose to hi, and will loose my "one leg on the floor" aproach. enter the relms of "crazyness" so to speak, from an "outsiders" perspective i should say.
I agree completely. Philosophical beleifs cannot be logically based on psychedelic experiences. Of course you can come to look at things from a different point of view but it cant be based on a visual or anything of the sort. Philosophical thinking on psychedelics can be somewhat dangerous, lol But on the idea that while tripping you realize that 'nothing matters', I have sometimes found that to be a pleasant point of view. It maked everything seemed irrelevant. There is a certain freedom to that, I think. Though easily enough it can be a somewhat depressing thought. But I think that has more to do with the mindset of user than the objective idea. I'm extremely interested in what psychedelics can do as far as offering greater introspection and such. Basically, I want to be a psychedelic therapist or researcher in these issues. Society needs new pioneers in the psychedelic field.
lol I hold the not so strong opinion that there is no such thing. But there is such a thing as actions/words that seem crazy.
danger of the mind only exists in the mind, just like fear but anyhoo. you are generalizing too much. stop that. quit staking a claim for the whole psychadelic community mang. your whole"philisophical ideals can't be based on psychadelics" that's bullshit. you are stressing on the visuals too much. typically such thought can't be based on visuals. it depend how you define philosophy as well as many other things. for example. i have a philosophy about life that i assume a few people in life have and that is go with the flow, but don't restrict that flow so when people stop your flow you have to give them a delicate push and either they wll get out of you way or they will go with the flow. that is logically a philosophy. when i trip i see that everything on earth is connected. which is realistically true...not as exaggerated as my visuals but essentiall true. this world is united because of carbon, hydrogen, and a whole lot of other shit. realizing that nothing matters man? you ain't looking hard enough, and i am assuming you are depressed. any legitimate head wouuld agree with me that lsd makes you see quite the opposite. everything matters, everyone, every leaf, every stick, twig, you name it....it matters. why does it matter, for the same reason it doesn't matter. you can think of anything you try to think of on lsd if you put your mind to it, it all is dependant on what you want to do and think about. looming about saying nothing mattered is completely negative and gives me bad vibes as well as seems like a start for a bad acid trip. i would understand if you made a post about K saying that going down the K hole it feels like nothing matters. LSD should enlighten you. If you want to be a free spirit, so be it. If you want to walk down a dark path alone continue to believe that nothing matters,convincing self that nothing matters in my opinion is a completely fruitless endeavor that is beyond our current understanding.
All I can say is: Make up your mind!! Since you are so stuck on beeing one foot on the ground, you can not get rid of your body. When you can't get rid of your body, you can not FEEL other things acid is helping you to feel. Untill than you will have that phylosofical way of thinking. I am not saying that you shouldn't look on normal life, I am just saying that you should integrate the things you learned from your trips into normal life and look at it from a different perspective. Just up your dose and lift that foot from the ground and you will know what I am talking about! Than you will know exactly the difference between dreams and trips, and difference between what you called "crazy" and "normal". People don't say for nothing that after acid you will never be the same. But, I must say that htey are thinking only after FULLY expiriencing acid, not those minor hits, not beeing stuck with visuals and distorted sounds. Grow up and go beyond that if you really want to learn something! You can also check my posts and see what I am talking about, from this point of view, you will probably say that I am "crazy"! Love you all and BETTER BEHAVIOR AROUND THE WORLD!!!
Calm down. I'm not making a statement for the entire 'psychedelic community.' Obviously what I wrote is my personal opinion. What I wrote as far as 'nothing matters' was a trip in which I had the idea and found it comical. I did not say that was my view that I derived from tripping. That is not my philosophy or outlook whatsoever. I only mentioned it because of what the previous poster said about them depressing them. What I wrote about not basing philosophical ideas on philosophy did not mean that psychedelics should be considered irrelevant when it comes to philosophy. It only means that I don't think (in my opinion) that someone should base their entire outlook on life based on a psychedelic experience or thought pattern on psychedelics. For example: Someone is on acid. They think and experience the sensation that they are in reality dreaming. They then decide that everyone is dreaming and reality isnt real. I'm not saying that that person is stupid. But I dont think its smart to base that because of a thought you had on acid. I have said many times to others that psychedelics expand creativity and the mind and are responsible for some of the greatest technologies recently created. (If not our entire evolution) I am a single individual. I am not the 'psychedelic community'. Anything I write is my own opinion. Please take that into account the next time you critize what I say.
meaning that your physical body isn't there. from scientific human understanding your "physical" presence isn't in a dream but your subconcsious...which can thusly effect your physical presence. you misunderstood what he said.
