For US Military members

Question for those serving in the US military.

Upon entering the military, you take an oath. This oath reads as follows.
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
First and foremost, you are are told to support and defend the US Constitution.
My question for you is....
Will you refuse on order that is in direct conflict with the US Constitution?

 

I'm not in the military, but I believe that anyone serving in Iraq is implicitly breaching the Constitution, regardless of their intentions.

 

Soldiers follow orders, most never consider the constitution. Most never even got far enough in school to know what the costitution encompasses.

The constitution isn't covered in bootcamp or basic. They only understand what their drill sargents tell them.

Oh wait...all those in uniform are heroes.

Hey, that's probably all good and well since they operate under laws and rules while the independent contractors in the area operate simply as hired guns.

 

That is one of the things I am getting at, they are sworn to uphold the Constitution, yet have no idea what that entails. Like most Americans, they have never taken the time to even read the supreme law of the land. The result is an ignorant population and armed forces who do not even know when these laws are trampled by their own government and Commander in Chief.

 

Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

-Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 1385

 

Most people who join the military have never read the Constitution. They simply accept the reality that has been downloaded into them through movies and video games.

 

Okay Im not for our being in Iraq but I have to see just what is our being in Iraq breaching the US Constitution? What article or section?

 

If the war is unconstitutional, then how is serving in that war constitutional?

If you read the Constitution, you would know that wars must be DECLARED! This war in Iraq is an undeclared war, much like the Gulf War, the Vietnam War, and the Korean War.

 

Understand what I am about to say I believe to be pure BS so...

We did declare war on "Terrorism" a written document was prepared and they claim that this was has led them to the Middle East (i.e. Afghanistan and Iraq) Same as the "War on Drugs" led them into Central America and allowed missions to upset the goverment there.

I dont believe those statements but that is the logic of the declaration.

 

I need to Amend that...

It was not written but rather verbal but still bs.

And they claim its not a war but rather "an engagement" (Well if its anything like my married life was its a war)

 

they used a kafka-esque way of declaring war by 'authorizing force.' (i think we needs legislation that clarifies that, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and swims like a duck, it's a god damned duck)

though you could argue that the executive branch (bush and cheney), was negligent in their duties to adequately inform the legislative branch. maybe you could have a case for about half a million negligent manslaughters?

... anyways, back to the origional poster. the constitution in the united states is kindof like a stand-in for a queen, king, emperor, god pharo or whatever. it's the sacred text that embodies our nation (in an abstract idealist way). the meaning (in this context at least) is not merely the written words on paper, but the idea of america as a whole.

besides, most people i've met can't wrap their minds around the consitution (ever hear 'there's no freedom from religion?" there is.), let alone soldiers in a war zone. even then most people don't want to think about the whys of what they're doing in that situation.

 

US Constitution,
Article I, Section 8
The Congress shall have the power...

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Article II, Section 2

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur;

Article II, Section 4

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Now, if you feel that any part of the Constitution has been violated by the actions of our President or Congress in presenting false evidence for invading Iraq, passing and enforcing the Patriot Act, Patriot Act II and other laws that appear to violate the Bill of Rights. Or if you feel the president has overstepped his bounds in giving himself powers not expresed to him by the Constitution. Then these acts are Unconstitutional and are therfore acts of treason.

 

Are you sure that's still the oath? Someone told me that it has been changed since Bush took office and they no longer swear allegiance to the Constitution. Maybe they were lying, but I took it to be a serious and accurate post.

 

Yes, I have a copy here from the Denver Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS)

 

see that is the catch 22, you swear and sign a contract that says "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me"

for instance: my supervisor gives me a lawful order to come in to work wearing a swimsuit and flip flops, even though that isn't the uniform of the day, and I know it isn't, I still am obligated to wear the swimsuit and flip flops because my supervisor gave me the lawful order. If I disobey, even knowing swimsuit isn't the uniform of the day, I will get into trouble because I didn't follow his lawful orders even though his lawful order goes against unit policy.

screwy huh ? this is military intelligence at its finest.

so if you miss a deployment, refuse to fight, refuse to follow orders you'll get racked over the coals, ie: spend time at Levenworth. the military has been dealing with this for a long time and has closed almost every loophole.

bush is an idiot and is no war time leader, he has circumvented the constitution at every turn.

 

Its past time, but OUR military wont even consider it without 100% support, which they dont have.

 

I find this interesting:

http://www.ptsdsupport.net/becoming_american.html

Why is it so hard to find a quotation of the actual oath of military service?

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/oathofenlist.htm
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000502----000-.html

 

I read some accounts a while back of military personnel who refused to deploy to Iraq based upon the assertion that the war was unconstitutional. I'm not sure how those cases turned out, but I'll bet they were disciplined and/or discharged under other than honorable conditions, the basis for that having been determined by our "leaders'" interpretation of the Constitution. They can't even decide whether washboarding is torture, obviously they have no clue what's Constitutional, but they are in charge.