i did have a look around the forums to see if this had been discussed yet.. and couldn't find it.. so i thought i'd start the thread myself. 40 lashes and a possible kidnap and beheading for letting a kid call a teddy bear mohammed(pbuh) are the sudanese authorities still lving in the dark ages... how can it be rationally justified.. as it is she got away with a short jail term and deportation.. but i think that too is a little harsh considering that she was just calling a teddy mohammed. to be honest i dont think this kind of behaiviour goes very far to demonstrating to the world that muslim nations are a peaceful people.. in fact i would say it mars the entire belief system as a bloodthirsty and barbaric way of thinking. certainly not anything we should consider giving religious sensitivity too here in the civilised world. i wonder what the bnp would have made of it had she actually been flogged.. if thats not fuel for race riots i dont know what is. i have started naming random things after other religiously significant people.. i have a lamp called mohammed... my penis is now called allah, my dirty washing basket is now jesus crist, and my fridge is buddah.
a wise move too by all accounts.. but the point still stands.. had international relations not been an issue. i'm sure she would have recieved the lashes.. and is that the actions of a peaceful nation. i think not. and if i remember from the news bulletin i heard, it was a member of the school board who was responsible for the claims against her.. its as bad as our city academies but i dont think they condone lashes for blasphemy.. its not a good example to be setting for children growing up in an international community. the fact that someting like this is even an issue, is the issue.. if you get me. it's not good that that kind of mind-set is prevailent in the modern world, least of all part of the education system.
There was never any possibility of beheading, I don't know where you got that from. But I agree, of course we can judge any form of punishment for naming a bear Mohammad as too harsh. And then we can take that forward to make statements like the Sudanese are living in the dark ages and then name our penises after god. We can even try to infer sweeping generalisations based on limited examples. But I don't see where that would get us. Better to join up with organisations like Amnesty International to apply some sort of rational and constructive pressure on governments holding prisoners unjustly, than to let it fuel irrational prejudices of our own....
It certainly would have happened without international pressure. Although with all that's going on in the Sudan, it's fairly minor by comparison, and the government had a pretty rational response, in comparison. Any sort of nation which would allow Sharia to judge it's population... I have much sympathy for the Sudanese people.
I guess he's thinking of the lynch mob that were waving machetes around in the streets of Khartoum. But yes, it's important to campaign against all unjust imprisonment, as today's news about the release of British residents from Guantanamo should forcefully remind us.
Of course the possible punishments were barbaric, my advice don't go anywhere near the places, I find the naeivity of people quite daunting really. Poor and backwards parts of the world are full of poor and backwards people, surprise surprise. When you live a life surrounded by early death through illness life itself becomes cheap, whats another death amongst the thousands.
"And then we can take that forward to make statements like the Sudanese are living in the dark ages and then name our penises after god. We can even try to infer sweeping generalisations based on limited examples" hmmm crucifixion is practiced in Sudan its in the legal code as is cutting off opposite arms and legs and having the person bleed to death .you have persecution of minorities where people like pagans are just killed same with Christians . You have genocide http://www.darfurgenocide.org/learn.php You have slavery I goggled slavery Sudan and found loads of sites including pictures of a 12 year old that had his fingers cut off by his owner. What exactly does a non medieval country look like and if this was happening in Sweden would you call that medieval. Why do the left always defend this sort of thing if it’s being done by brown or black people or a specific religion , and if they build a wall in Israel that’s considered the worse thing on earth when clearly it isn’t by any rational analysis
this is true.. but politicians of the country seemed wealthy enough and in the international circle enough to understand that anykind of torcherous punishment for naming a bear mohammed is simply bewilderingly dumb. i htink it must be the religion... as one philosophizing person once roughly said.. good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but to make a good person do bad things, it takes religion. and unfortunately it seems that sudan is a bit too theo-political in it governing
Sure politicians are politicians, they're involved in politics and their actions are understandable. I don't think it is the religion that is the problem. All I see is male power games myself and to aquire power they adopt the use of religion, "The big I am". Keep away from places with heavy male dominated societies.
I don't remember defending it. When I worked fundraising for Amnesty, I frequently criticised Sudan and the situation in Darfur. I apply my principles universally. Skin colour has no meaning for me. It's you who persistently singles out a religion for attack and when you make statements like you just did, it makes you sound like a racist. My only point was that bandying about lowest common denominator tabloid phrases like "they're living in the dark ages" is a highly unconstructive and oversimplified. Better, as I said, to criticise particular policies logically and through the relevant bodies....
I saw galloway speaking and he said yes the teddy bear thing was nonsense then went on to blame the teacher for cultural insensitivity . again I wonder if he would treat sweden in the same way as sudan or does he expect lower standards from sudan Anyway the teddy bear affair has had the desired effect its reinforced the fact that you cant say anything about mohammed ,you cant draw him or name a teddy bear by the name mohammed , It very likely some people will get killed for it like you had nuns shot over the mohammed cartoons .
The teddy bear thing is nonsense. It was all driven by um....political correctness. The full extremities of the brigade yet again. PC isn't solely in the UK. It is now globally dominant. Islam is by far a peaceful religion so we shouldn't start blaming islam. I think everyone knows where I stand on the political correctness front. I am entitled to my views. Even if it is ironically politically incorrect.
It's not a matter for political correctness if someone offends Islam in an Islamic country. It's a matter for religious doctrine....
political doctrine as islam isnt just a religion ie a belief system in some god its a political system otherwise crucifixtion wouldnt be on the code of laws of sudan it comes from religious law . people should start to understand its a religion when its weak , when it gets strong its a political system
Yes, that's true, though you put it crudely (it's not simply about weak and strong), your point is generally right. Indeed fundamentalism is often more accurately described as Political Islam, because far from being orientated in ancient ideals it seeks a very modern aim of turning faith into a system of general laws and political practices. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with political correctness. Political correctness concerns a basic common decency and the idea of not setting out to offend someone because of their race, religion, gender etc. It teaches people to respect difference, to tolerate one another and to seek to enforce homogeneity of the superiority of one culture over another. Can you honstely say the Sudanese government is acting out of that? No, it is enforcing its own culture, it's own religion, it's own vision of how people should live their lives on others and that is antithetical to political correctness....
