I live in Arizona, which borders Mexico. It seems that everyone here assumes... 1. If you're Hispanic, you're Mexican 2. If you're Hispanic, and you don't speak English, you're illegal That irritates me enough without also constantly hearing... "Learn to speak English if you're going to live in the United States" These are my thoughts on that... 1. I really dislike the assumptive nature which seems to plague most people. How can somebody assume a person immigrated here illegally just because they don't speak English? They could just be vacationing for all you know. I also don't like how a lot of people assume everyone who LOOKS Mexican is a Mexican, and then proceeds to treat them like they are an illegal immigrant who has no right to be here. There are a lot of Hispanic people who are BORN in the United States, who are you to tell them they have no right to be here? Your family immigrated here at some point too, maybe even illegally, so, get over it... 2. I think understanding/reading/writing/speaking Spanish is imparitive for anyone who lives in a state which borders a Spanish-speaking country. I think it should be a mandatory class in our schools even. Why? When THAT much of the population is speaking a language you don't understand it produces, at the LEAST, saftey issues. If you're in some sort of emergency, and a person whom speaks only Spanish happens to be the first who arrives to help you, how are they going to be able to do anything for you when you don't understand eachother? I agree that they should learn English as well, for the same reason... but for people to be so stubborn about learning another language, like it's NOT in their better interest to be able to communicate with the other half of the population around them... makes no sense to me, and seems dangerous and counter-productive to the progression of our society. Look at Europe, they have enough sense to learn the languages of their bordering countries. Why are we so stubborn about it? So, I come across this DAILY. The prejudice and racism in Arizona is REALLY annoying to me and its EVERYWHERE. I am ashamed to call most people I come across my fellow American, when they seem to have no real grasp of what "freedom, liberty and justice for all" means. There are few people who truely practice equality here, it's sad to me... I was raised different, so much that as I've grown up it's been almost surprising to me how much most people seem to throw around generalities about eachother... 3. Why is it that when people are about to say some prejudice or racist shit they start it with, "Not to sound prejudice/racist, but..." If you can't even accept the fact that you're a prejudice/racist person with prejudice/racist thoughts then you probably know somewhere inside those prejudice/racist thoughts aren't right or acceptable. You should assess yourself to see what your problem with yourself is before you even open your mouth to talk about other people. So... just wanted to vent a bit. What do you think of all this?
I come from a generation that attempted to fight our societies and our parents predijuces - ones that had been ingrained in them from generations prior. "This is what they are, this is what we say they are", sort of mindset (you DON'T want to know my Grandmother's generalization about black people, she was from the South). All my formative years were spent in the suburbs of Los Angeles, California. During those years it was all pretty good, eveyone was trying to get along (peace, love, joy - blah blah) and the gangs, Hispanic or other, were very frindge and most attacks were on rival gangs and not against the general populace. I know this from having partied in those neighborhoods and walking those streets many a day and night. Not only that, but I grew up in Gardena, California. Gang central. What got me, was when I was "all grown up" (early 40s) and working in an office in downtown San Diego, all of a sudden the climate changed. I'd park my car in the structure, decend to the streets and begin the walk to my office only to come across a gaggle of people (gang members of Hispanic decent) blocking the walk way and making you have to fight through to pass. I'm talking deliberate arm bashing and bumping on their parts, to a person twice their age. I don't know about the rest of the planet, but I was raised to respect our elders. No matter what the race. So these instances really stuck with me. To experience this, after all those years of trying to undo my parents prejudiced, was truly disheartening. What it boils down to is we all need to be teaching our children to respect. Respect everyone no matter the color, until that PERSON (not the color) gives you a reason not to.
I've nothing against hispanics as a race, I've worked with them I've lived with them. Thing is if you come to a country to prosper and assimilate you do just that, you don't ask the country to adapt to you. And a word of warning to these immigrants.. you aren't the only ones that pretend to not understand a language. I don't know how many times I've been in a retail store and heard rude discussions amongst spanish speakers that don't think those around them understand. I do and many times I am offended. My gran came from Ireland legally, the rest of the family dates back to the Adams who were once in the White House, so yes I value immigration but not illegal immigration. And I don't think Spanish should be the second language of the US any more than German, Yiddish or Russian is.
Well said gardener... all of it. I live on a border state as well. I think this is a pretty good assumption myself. Then they have a passport and they would have no problem showing that they are here legally. If there are US citizens who can't speak english, they were probably born here from illegal alien parents in communities full of illegal aliens. I think even if you're a US citizen, if you can't speak english you should expect people to be suspicious of you. I have no problem with hispanics who are here legally. I am part hispanic. My problem is with the uncontrollable illegal immigrant problem we have. No. If the illegal immigrant problem is so bad that we have to learn their language then we know things are way out of control. We should be solving this problem instead of rolling out the red carpet for them. They are the ones coming here illegally. They take on the risks of not learning our language as well as all the other risks. When I was in school I wanted to learn German as a second language. Mexico was not on my mind. I do not think I should be forced to learn their language. Accommodating their illegal action should not be our responsibility. And the way you talk about the progression of our society sounds like you think progress means for the southern states to become northern Mexico. It means freedom, liberty and justice for all Americans and immigrants who come here legally. American laws do not extend to citizens of other countries. Because thats the first thing they're going to get accused of if they object to illegal immigrants. They usually aren't objecting to them as hispanics or Mexicans. They are objecting to them being here legally. But if anyone says that, they are automatically accused of being racists and it's not about that. I think this issue has gone way out of control. I don't know if the INS is underfunded or if they're just incompetent, but they are hardly a barrier for all the Mexicans pouring into this country. Then once they are here there is hardly anyone who's job it is to say "hey, are you supposed to be in this country?" So now they're all over the place here and frustrated politicians, who can't seem to get rid of them instead throw up their hands and start handing these illegals drivers licenses, free health care, free education. Politicians are bending over backwards to kiss the asses of these illegals while the people of America want it stopped. Yet the politicians are all chomping at the bit to give these people who are here illegally and can't even vote priveledges. WHY??!
When Mexico does away with dual citizenship I may think twice, and maybe change my view point. But until then US and underhanded employers are supporting a corrupt government in Mexico that can't keep it's own citizens happy or at home. Explain to me why a huge country with a mild climate and lot's of natural resources can't put it's own people to work. Did NAFTA make that possible?
What alot of people are not aware of, is a decades old unspoken policy, of allowing illegals from Mexico into the country to work. The logic behind this is based on keeping Mexico stable, despite it's lousy economy. Mexico is still a third world country. It has several active militia groups who don't need much excuse to try and take over. The only thing that really holds them back is lack of support from the general population. If you close the borders, and the money that is sent back into Mexico from these illegals stops, the dire poverty that would follow would destabilize the country. If the government can't appease the people, it loses support and rebel groups gain it in return. If this issue is not resolved soon, you may very well see a revolution occur. The danger from that is pretty obvious. This may be the real reason for securing the border. x
Instead of securing the border our government is forming the SPP and opening our highways and trucking to Mexico. Their excuse is they can't send 12 million home to Mexico, but while they are hashing out the SPP they are letting another 3 to 4 million in. How does that fix things?
Its good for Mexico, but the US will gain little, except a stable Mexico. This is new thinking, but I think it's going to blow up in everybody's face. It has the same shortsightedness as the Iraq war. x
Except nobody in the government wants to secure the borders, which is why they remain open. The hidden agenda isn't about closing off the borders, but leaving them open.
it isnt just the border states though with the hispanic = mexican or spanish = illegal,,,, that everywhere, really annoys me too but this is political forums so tis all i got to say on that subject
Well, you've got to remember that the border states used to BE Mexico. What's a line in the sand anyway? x
That land was fought for and claimed, and now it's part of the United States. You have to wonder why the Aztlan movement, which is radicalizing the Mexican population against Americans and telling them the southern US belongs to them, is being funded by multinational corporations and the elite mega foundations. It appears they want to create racial tension between Americans and Mexicans. And I do agree with borders being imaginary lines. However, that is missing the point. The fact is, there are people high within the government and its interlocking bureucracies who want open borders as a means to forward their own agenda of the North American Union. This is what you seem to be missing. Mexicans are simply being used for an agenda that has nothing to do with the best interests of the Mexicans OR the American people.
Does anyone find it funny that many of the mexican border states are favored retirement places?? This may be a stab in the dark but a lot of the people who have huge problems with mexican immigration are the elderly and retired who have plenty of time to join the minutemen and sit idlely on the border..... I know it's a blanket statement. Something that gets me is that people who want to make laws that would make english the official language often ignore what happens with immigration... most second generation immigrants don't speak their parents native tongue and by the 3rd and 4th generation there is virtually no difference due to the assimilation that has occured.
Interesting facts surrounding this immigration debacle and why it's not only not good for the united states but why it's also not good for thrid world countries in the long run. http://video.google.com/videopopup?..._the_Numbers.mov+-+Google+Video+-+Full+Screen Enjoy!
Retirees retire where it is warm, nothing more than that. Illegal Mexican workers talk about regaining California. The current US Government may make that part of the SPP plan. Assimiliation happened in the past before Title 7 in California and other states, now we make it easy for them not to assimilate. And why should they want to they still see themselves as citizens of a foreign country, that is trying to annex property that has been developed by others. My complaint is why can't Mexico support it's own people? Someone have an answer to that?
we're(US) being used as a relief valve for Mexico and the other countries south of them--a hedge against a needed revolution like we had here.It's my understanding that a very few own most everything there and the rulers,local and national,have no compunction about having people who agitate for unions or just for fairness- shot,tortured or disappeared.As our country is flying apart,we need something or someone to blame-the mexicans are handy,but it isn't their fault they want to live better lives than they have in their country.Our government is responsible for enforcing our laws,but why should business owners give a shit about that?The mexicans work cheap and hard when they come here.This goes for the other hispanics that live south of mexico.Until the people in the south rise up and change their countries in major ways,nothing here will change.Maybe Chavez and some of the other leaders down there are showing the way.Time will tell.If the CIA doesn't get to them.
I've gotten into some big arguments with my friends from Mexico, as to why they leave their families and come here to work, while not making their own country reform.
