does a lack of religeon create a nation of scrudges? no. a lack of self honesty does. this is doubly unfortunate because organized beliefs do encourage people to want to avoid causing suffering and then turn arround and encourage them to deceive themselves as to how suffering is caused suffering is caused by conditions created by policies motivated by incentives that are created statisticly by the values people actually live by but are almost never awaire of doing so. or at least how what values, when held by signifigant numbers of population, combine statisticly to create what incentives. that's where the break down is, why the creating of the conditions that cause suffering haven't yet been able to be ended. there is no intrinsic inability to do so. it's just that taking any belief's word for it, without objective observation doesn't get us there. and too many people who DO see this flaw in organized beliefs, then fail to see the flaw in failing to seek to avoid causing it. humans as a species are NOT incapable of solving this conundrum. the creating of conditions that cause suffering is a problem that CAN be solved. a day will come when it IS solved. from THAT day on, when it is, THAT is what will be called the most great peace, heavin on earth, age of aquarius, real and sustainable utopia/ecotopia. and while there may be gods or a god, and there certainly appear to be beliefs, it is this age of understanding how what we choose to have be important to us adds togather to create the incentives that motivate the policies that create the conditions. of course we COULD self destruct from waiting too long to figure this out. that COULD happen, but it is no sealed fate nor inevitable doom. it is a choice. blind belief and blind disbelief are the SAME 'wrong' road. =^^= .../\...