This is the basic perspective of many 'open minded' Christians that I know (and have heard of). When the subject comes up, and in normal conversation, you'd think they were perfectly fine with (and supported) homosexuality--in fact many claim to. Only when the question is worded, specifically, "Do you believe homosexuality is a sin" is their prejudice revealed. Even then, they can't answer yes or no, but reply with (essentially) this topic's title. They say that all people are born with sin, and that sin is a part of human nature--a very vague and subjective statement. My question to you, the reader (who most likely supports homosexuality) is this: Does this perspective still constitute prejudice? What are your other thoughts on this specific opinion? What are your arguments against (or supporting) it? I think it's as bad as blatant homophobia. The opinion still regards homosexuality as evil, and therefore a characteristic which should be discouraged and treated as harmful. Though the statement has no 'holier-than-thou' ring to it (being all-inclusive in regards to evil), it remains intolerant by condemning a group for being who they are. The playing field for labeling sins is uneven-- i.e. all people lust, but not all people lust for those of the same sex-- who by definition are committing a double-sin. My main purpose of this topic is to see where, in the range of pro-gay perspectives, I lie: With the majority, or are my standards regarding tolerance set slightly higher?
I think/hope there is a changing of the tide of prejudice toward gay people even among many who have a healthy Christian faith. The hate crap that has been in society for so long is changing. Lots of people are at least willing to view gay folks with a fresher perspective. There are still rabid haters, always will be. People are weird, they make decsions on flawed perspectives. The Christian that really has bought the hate crap that some church's preach is gonna stuggle to ever accept gay people. The rabid haters will claim religion or anything else to justify their hate, they just like to hate...they're ate up, they're assholes. If people wanna hate me because of some crap they have in their head, they will. I'm busy with living my life, I really don't have a lot of time for their problems.
The folks who wrote the bible were no doubt inspired if not near-enlightened people; whether our interpretation is correct and they truly believed that "God" disapproved of sodomy or whether we have lost the true meaning of their words over time, it is very backward and ignorant to support such prejudice in the modern world. I'd say it's high time for a new bible.
But what I'm asking is, would you consider the people I describe in the first paragraph to be prejudiced/intolerant? I don't believe it's hate, but definately misunderstanding, at least.
Too broad of a group to tar with one brush. Many in that group may be ignorant and uninformed of gay people without being prejudiced/intolerant. With the rising visibility of gay people, some in that group may form more open minded attitudes. Others may remain assholes.
Like Zilla939 said-"The folks who wrote the bible were no doubt inspired if not near-enlightened people; whether our interpretation is correct and they truly believed that "God" disapproved of sodomy or whether we have lost the true meaning of their words over time, it is very backward and ignorant to support such prejudice in the modern world. I'd say it's high time for a new bible." I wholeheartedly agree with Zilla 939 on this.Also hateful people will always find excuses to hate,their excuses are just a bluff they're just hateful people that's all.If it is'nt gays it's something else.Misunderstanding and ignorance happens all the time but with all the media exposure concerning gays and changing times things are getting slowly better. But to answer your question I don't believe in sin(I believe in A.What is hurtful and B.What is helpful,to keep it simple)So anything directly or indirectly implying gays or any orientation other than hetrosexuality is a sin is diffenetly offensive to me and I consider predjudice.The churches stand on homesexuality and most things are outdated and anything but useful in my humble opinion,Not to mention how incredibly hurtful it is and can be.Time for changes!.Many *openminded christians are still bigoted eventhough they believe otherwise.Also to say we are born in sin(from original sin)and condemn people as sinners(even themselves)is bullshit,Saying sin is our human nature is bullshit,who are they to label or say were or anyone else are sinners(espicially if they're *sinners too lol).If they want to believe that nonsense that's they're business but to judge others is wrong.And I agree it's as bad actually much worse than blatant homophobia since it's such a mindfuck you could actually start to believe that garbage. Like Yarapario said-"If people wanna hate me because of some crap they have in their head, they will. I'm busy with living my life, I really don't have a lot of time for their problems." Hallelujah !!!
I was raised in a fanatical baptist church (but blessedly, I quit going to church 5 years ago). They had no tolerance at all. The pastor's son was molested by a man and when this made him confused about his sexuality, they made him get up in front of the whole church and confess. Those that tolerate but disagree are much better. I believe they're entitled to their opinion. To force them to agree with someone's different lifestyle would be as bad as them trying to make a gay person agree with their opinions on said lifestyle. I think tolerance is the key here. Respecting differences between people, even if there are differing opinions. Those people that say it's a sin disagree, yes, but they are showing tolerance. That's hard for Christians. Most are taught to denounce and judge, not agree to disagree. I think most Christians feel to accept a gay person's lifestyle would be to sin themselves, so this group of Christians that are tolerant have certainly come a long way. To expect Christians to change is intolerant of the gay community, in my humble opinion.
It's good you can show tolerance in their differences of opininion,for me though I have lost patience with the church a long time ago so sorry if I'm intolerant. Any improvement in respecting the differences of opinion is positive though. I tend to get annoyed with them though.I feel who I sleep with is really none of thier business. Whether I'm a sinner or a saint has nothing to do with them.I don't need to be recruited to church and or any help with saving my soul.I don't feel that's their business either.I don't see why they can't keep more of their opinions to themselves.Most of all I find it hard to respect there opinion since they believe (may believe) I'm a sinner and going to hell.It seems as if they'd wish me to go to hell and that really freaks me out,they don't even know me.Not to mention the pedophille scandals with the church in recent years which have really put them on my shit list.So that being said I'm really intolerant(wish I was'nt and did'nt have to be).Otherwise I'd be completely cool with the church and what they choose to believe.I don't mean to put them down or go off on them. Any improvement in the tolerance we have for each others differences is a step in the right direction.I personally have a hard time with it,but still think that's what's best.Live and let live. What they believe is what they believe and that's ok as long as it does'nt infringe on anyones rights in any way.The same goes for my beleifs.There really should be no problem.But unfortunately it is'nt always that way. Is calling homosexuality a sin predjudice or not,everyone's gonna have their opinion.I still think it is. Therese Alin,I don't understand what you mean by this: "To expect Christians to change is intolerant of the gay community, in my humble opinion." Can you explain? -Hope I did'nt offend anyone,It was'nt meant that way. Joey*
You didn't offend me, I thought you expressed yourself well and politely. I can absolutely see where you're coming from. I've lost patience with Christianity myself, I just believe in equal freedom, whether I approve of what people do with that freedom or not. I do tend to avoid Christians for the very reason that they most often are terribly judgemental and sometimes stick their noses where they don't belong. They also seem to never accept you for who you truly are; I always felt like a project and then eventually like I was viewed as a lost cause. My parents new pastor once came to our house and had a long talk with my sister and I, basically trying to tell us why we were wrong to leave church and why what we chose to believe was misguided. We stood our ground and he left pretty much just shaking his head and saying 'well, I tried.' I was grossly offended. I guess my point is that I get what you're saying, I've experienced it too. I don't think that really makes you intolerant. Everybody has a beef with somebody, and we're all entitled to that. Actually though, one of my best friends is a Christian and she's been wonderfully supportive of my "controversial" (normal) beliefs and I have no trouble with her at all. I get what you're saying about Christians not infringing on the rights of others they disagree with. Christians definitely have a lot of room for improvement. They can believe whatever they want, but it's not their place to say same sex couples can't marry or do anything they choose to do with each other. Law has nothing do with opinion, only protecting freedom. (at least, that's how it should be.) How they feel about it is completly irrelelvant and has nothing to do with them since, of course, they're most likely straight. If they have a problem with it, they should marry people of the opposite sex and be done with it, rather than pitch a fit about what other people do. Therese Alin,I don't understand what you mean by this: "To expect Christians to change is intolerant of the gay community, in my humble opinion." Can you explain? I just meant that if a person expects to receive deference they need to be willing to give it in return. I don't mean that anyone should compromise themselves, only respect each others differences.
