i don't know a hell of a lot about computers. is it possible for them to generate genuinely random numbers within certain parameters? it seems to me like it would be unlikely for a computer to generate purely random numbers, but then i dont really know that much about it.
Computers can generate random numbers but it is debatable whether they are truly random. Some people, like the Nevada State Gaming Commission, will say they are truly random, but other experts, like programers of gaming machines, say they are not.
Looking further into it, computers can only generate what is call psuedo-randomness, not true randomness. For more info - http://www.random.org/randomness/
Using the logic of "pseudo-randomness"... nothing in this world can generate random numbers. Even if I scream out 27! I screamed out 27 for some hidden reason... something made me scream out 27 and not 28... which does not make it truly random.
I don't know if a person can be truly random. If a computer is using something like atmospheric noise, then it can generate truly random numbers out of it. Otherwise a pseudo-random computer output is programed based on an algorithm, which makes it only seem random.
This is true. Nothing is truly random - everything has an exact reason as to why it happened. A coin flip is merely the product of the forces applied to the coin. Anything can be calculated, everything has a cause and effect, so nothing is random.
No. Your typing was influenced by certain impulses which made you generate that number and only that number. It's very easy to argue that nothing is random... which is why I don't like dd3stp233's argument against computers... even though he is right.
it would seem to me computers would have certain limits by nature. for instance, requiring a computer to "randomly" select an integer in a small group of potential outcomes (for instance 1-6) would be more difficult to make it truly random than if the computer had its choice (and the ability to accurately represent) any one of all real numbers. or at least, it would seem this way to me....and i'm rather poor with math skills and technology in general. just not the way my mind works. if a computer is to generate a random number, it must be programmed to do so. in order to adequately complete ANY task, a computer must be given a set of certain guidelines within which it may behave. it would seem virtually impossible to say "alright, computer....just do it" simply because a human is not actively telling it which number to pick and it would be virtually impossible to predict which number may be picked, it seems it would be pretty damn near impossible to make it random, and without being computer literate it would seem hard to determine how close to random the program actually was. what brings this up is a game i played on the computer tonight. the game, when played in real life, involves rolling physical dice. in the computer game, i noticed an inordinately high number of doubles when the dice were "rolled." time after time, and often doubles occurred consecutivley. i think the most was four sets of consecutive doubles, first one player, then the next, then the first again, then the second again. when physically rolling dice, it is not random in the most literal sense of the word. the outcome cannot be predicted, of course, but it has everything to do with physics - how the dice were behaving in the cup prior to being rolled, the physical shape of the dice, the surface onto which they were rolled, the force with which they were expelled from the cup, the atmosphere through which they must travel from the time they leave the cup to the time they hit the surface of the table or whatever they are to land on.....so many things come into play. though the outcome is not truly random, the human has absolutely no way of predicting what the outcome would be, has no way to cheat so long as honest dice are used. whereas with a computer...well, it would seem that if there were a way to stop the generation of the numbers halfway through its completion, a seperate program could be used to determine the eventual outcome. in essence, it would seem to me that a computer would know what numbers would be generated prior to the act being completed, seeing as computers are used to calculate, to perform according to human-determined, predictable manners. i just fail to see how a program could be made to operate randomly, which would in essence be requiring it to function without making any calculations or in a predictable way. i understand that an individual program may not necessarily be random even if virtual or genuine randomness may be possible. i understand certain programs may not be designed to provide any more than an illusion of randomness, and that it may have a predisposition to certain outcomes. i am not arguing that the "dice" the computer rolled were even MEANT to be random. for all i know, it may in fact be predisposed to generating a pair of identical numbers more often than occurs with real dice. i also understand that unusual things happen all the time and it would be perfectly possible for this to happen with real, physical dice, even though it would be HIGHLY improbable. it just would seem to me that the very nature of computers, the characteristics that make them so infinitely useful to humans - such as mathematical accuracy and precision, a strict adherence to the rules in which they are told to operate - would inherently make them unable to do anything on their own without being able to predict the outcome....for something to pop up essentially by chance. if there is any way of dumbing it down and explaining to me how a computer is able to generate a random number, i'd appreciate some sort of explanation as to how something like this can happen. of course i know it can't be PURELY by accident and PURELY random......but can the computer legitimately perform functions with unpredictable outcomes? is there such a thing, for instance, as a fair "pair" of computer "dice?" while it cannot be 100% random either in the physical world or in a computer, it would seem the difference would be the human dice roller has absolutely NO means by which to predict the outcome, where it would seem to me the computer would inherently be REQUIRED to be able to predict the outcome.
but maybe i had one too many sips of beer and am just confused since i understand so little about how computers actually work. either way, if someone can simplify the way in which a computer can do this, i'd like to know...cause once i start thinking about it, it may bug me for a while if i dont find out
You can build a very simple program that generates a "random" number in between 1-10 when you press enter. The computer works on a mathematical function represented by the percentage of probability for each number showing up (being 10% in this case). The computer then runs 0.1 of each number (or 10 of each number if you want to work with a 100)... you can compare this to a lotto raffle. The computer doesn't "know" which number will come out because each number has the same probability... whatever number comes out comes out by pure chance. No other number has any more chance to come out because they are all assigned the same percentage. Ideally, a raffle works the same way because every number has the same probability to come out. The computer just takes away the external factors (such as a possibility of a certain ball being in a certain position which would make it more probably to fall through the hole in a lotto game, or a players "skill" at throwing dice). The computer functions on pure probability... so your game (if it's actually designed correctly) generates more "random" dice results than throwing the dice by hand... even if it appears otherwise.
i sort of understand i think, but then this is also why i'll unfortunately never be able to pursue an occupation in physics or chemistry or anything else involving math....some mathematic ideas are just tough for me to grasp, personally. perhaps my mind just simply doesnt work that way very well, as it's always been my weakest spot. when i understand math i love it, but its rare for me to be able to understand anything beyond very simple arithmatic, algebra and geometry.... i'll need to read your post again tomorrow, but it seems like its the answer i was looking for..... oh well....everyone's good at different things.
the mathimatical proceedures used to produce pseudo-random numbers can indeed only produce PSEUDO randomness. however, analog proceedures for generating true randomness can and do exist. such as counting incidence of cosmic ray particles. if some device for doing so were used as in input seed to random number generation, THEN truely random numbers would be generated. however, the pseudo-randomness of the algorythems used is generally quite sufficient in most aplictaions where randomness needs to be simulated. perfectly balanced polyhydral dice also generate numbers within their rainge randomly. though how perfectly balanced they can be manufactured or are, is another somewhat open question. =^^= .../\...
