Required reading for the anti-gun people

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html



Or should I just say, required reading...

 

And every story you read there about a teenaged armed robbing gangbanger killed by a liquor store owner will be "a child killed by gun violence" by Sarah Brady and Co.

 

Nice thread. I thought rather than trying to say the same thing all over again, I'd just copy from the other thread, as it's perfect for the topic:

Bad guys will always carry guns. I will not put myself at a disadvantage by "using an alternate method" because there is nothing that compares in lethality and range to a gun, except a gun.

Bad guys do not reason. In the heat of the moment, you will be the luckiest man in the universe if you're able to disarm a gun-toting thief by asking him to talk so that you don't have to take a life.

Bad guys steal stuff. And those of you who have said, "I'd rather him steal my stuff than kill him," you're just plain stupid. Go ahead and let people do what they want and walk all over you.

Bad guys kill people. Again, maybe you'll be lucky and never encounter this, but there might be a point when someone wants to break into your house merely to rape you and kill you, or worse, rape your spouse and kill your spouse. I bet you'll wish for a gun then. I bet the real life victims wish they'd been as lucky.

Bad guys get what they want. Gun bans are not going to get guns out of the hands of the criminals. Period. Criminals will always get their guns. It's the same idea as hackers; hackers will ALWAYS be able to hack the highest level security computers, because no matter how many safeguards you have there will always be people with the knowledge of how to break it, and information like that spreads like wildfire, causing new upgrades to security which solves nothing because the same genius hackers continue cracking and sharing.

For the record, I don't do "statistics" very often, but just take a look at the crime rates and severity over the last 60 years. Since the disciplinary actions for criminals has gotten less and less strict, the crime rates have soared ever higher, and I'm NOT talking about just because of the increase in population.

Criminals have nothing to fear. The turnaround rate for criminals going back to prison is ridiculous. They don't give a damn; prisons are just a walled in ghetto. I've even heard firsthand that it's easier to get "things" in prison than on the street.

So, let's go ahead and tell all the people who just want to protect their lives, the lives of their family, and their possessions that they are no longer allowed to protect them and theirs.

And we'll tell all the law-abiding criminals to bring their guns in for melting down. They'll be sure to ask for a receipt.

Some of you might be interested in this:

~From CDC 1999 to 2004~
Firearm Homicide Deaths: 68,350
Firearm Legal Intervention Deaths: 1,850
Firearm Unintentional Deaths: 4,543
-
Total Homocide Deaths: 106,689
Total Legal Intervention Deaths: 2,332
Total Unintentional Deaths: 625,328

So if you're anti-gun because you're worried about an unintentional firearm death, you don't even make 1% of the total of accidental deaths, so stop acting like it's some enormous problem that happens multiple times a day in every neighborhood in the U.S.

If you're anti-gun because you're trying to stop criminals from using guns, look at the uneven numbers from homicides and legal intervenes. That's about a 45/1 ratio. Disarming people will only make that worse.

Lastly, if none of this has made an impact, look at that 600K number, related to accidents ... it's the highest number of any. So, do we start taking away skateboards, airplanes, cars, lawnmowers, power tools, sewing machines, kitchen knives, fans, glass products, and chewing gum as well?

 

3 of the first four were stories where guns were fired (more or less) illegally, including one where someone shot someone because of mistaken identity.
Is it required reading because of all the people who have this strange idea that there are 'good' and 'bad' people, and the 'good' people should have access to guns? Because there's only people, doing stupid people things...

 

"Good"?

"Bad"?


What is with the quotes, man? The concepts are not nearly as abstract as you'd like to think.


Let's see if you can identify the "good" and "bad" persons in the following hypothetical:

A mother, father and their young children are in their home sleeping. A large 250 lb. knife-toting man, high on pcp starts trying to smash their sliding glass window in with a lawn chair.

Just as the bastard delivers the final kick to the window, smashing it to bits, the father comes downstairs shotgun in hand, and blows the prick away.



Now if you ask me, there is no confusing the "good" and the "bad" there. But maybe you're just so far left of center that these concepts no longer apply. You know, "not passing judgement" and all that other stuff, right?

 

To quote That 70's Show... BURN!

 

You did confuse good and bad. You assume that in this one instance, that the family is absolutely good, and the other man absolutely bad, in the sense that they are some basic way that will not change over time. the father could go on to use the shotgun to rob a church, you don't know.
you assume that there are good guys and bad guys, the way a child believes in story tales. Truth is, people are people. People will go crazy sometimes, take drugs, or get desperate enough to use a gun in an agressive way. You, personally, can not tell who will and who won't.

there are no good people, and there are no bad people, just people doing thier brutal people things. you think that if we could just find out 'the bad guys' and keep them from getting guns, then all the 'good' people would be safe. It just doesn't work that way. Good people go crazy, and bad people are capable of being heroes...

so, yeah, you're wrong.

 

Eugene,

First, your entire concept of how humans work is totally wrong. Humans are creatures of habit, and psychologically people become MORE ingrained in who they are over time, not the other way. Pick up a book.

Secondly, at that moment in time when the knife wielding maniac is in my home HE IS THE BAD GUY. I don't give a damn about what he might do later on, IF I LIVE, and that he might change his ways, IF I LIVE, cause all I'm concerned about AT THAT MOMENT in time is THE BAD GUY who is ATTACKING ME.

Lastly, basing and limiting the way the rest of the world works just because of the fraction of a percentage that actually do go crazy is the most preposterous thing I've heard anyone say.

Please think before you speak.

 

1. yes, humans are creatures of habit, truth is most of us will not change how we act or how we think. the thing about guns, however, is that once you purchase one you pretty much own one for the rest of your life. because someone might fit the mold of a responsible person at one stage in their lives doesn't mean that they will always be.
2. I'm not arguing that the person attacking someone isn't a bad guy, just that by you shooting him, you are not a good guy. This way of thinking is common in the US, we think because we killed a bunch of nazis (the worst people in history in our collective judgement), we are good, moral people. we aren't, and we certainly weren't.
3. I don't think anyone is really sane, in the clinical sense. we're all just people, and people are naturally violent. at some stage in most of our lives, we've wanted to kill somebody, most of us don't, but owning a gun would make crossing that line a lot easier.

PS: I'm not really arguing that guns should be banned, they shouldn't be. I just think that the good/bad mentality when it comes to weapon ownership is a false dichotomy. i don't like false dichotomies.

 

- 3. I don't think anyone is really sane, in the clinical sense. we're all just people, and people are naturally violent. at some stage in most of our lives, we've wanted to kill somebody, most of us don't, but owning a gun would make crossing that line a lot easier. -


Like the bottle of liquor in my kitchen makes me an alcoholic or a woman's pussy makes her a slut.

 

I call Eugene's condition Philosophical Apathy.

 

If anyone wants to understand the agenda behind gun control and the disarmament of the public, just look at this statue found outside of UN headquarters in New York City.



Gun control has nothing to do with protecting innocent people from violence, but leaving the people defenseless against the state, who have proven time and time again to be the REAL predators.

Gun control doesn't stop gun violence, it makes it worse. Why? Because it restricts people from purchasing guns LEGALLY, while making it easier for people to purchase them ILLEGALLY on the black market.

 

You certainly wouldn't argue that if you were an alcoholic, then having a bottle of liquor wouldn't help...

 

And you certainly wouldn't argue that any law-abiding citizen's right to bear arms to defend themselves and their family should never be infringed for any reason, no matter how righteous it may seem...

 

Eugene, are you a killer that doesn't need to be around firearms?

 

I'm done with this moron.

He's not even arguing. All he's doing is taking whatever you say and finding what he thinks is some great philosophical breach, never considering the moment as necessity and justification in common sense and morality.

Anyone can ask unanswerable questions.
A real philosopher seeks answers.

 

So true...

 

Why we have the right to keep guns.

First and foremost, the founders of our country had just been through hell and back, ridden under the oppression of tyranny, and came out to see Liberty and Freedom on the other side.

This tragic war was obviously fresh on their mind, the events all through the war leading them to create the documents that procure and secure our rights as Americans.

They were also insightful and experienced enough to know that the war they just fought and won would repeat itself in due time. They knew the American people would face the same problems of corruption and elitest groups, a government that tried to abolish our Freedom and Liberty.

They gave us everything we need to fight oppression.
They even told us it would happen again.
And they protected us...if we know we're protected.

This is what they told us:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

~~They're specific in what Freedom is, and we see it's being taken.~~

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

~~And they give us rights to defend those Freedoms.~~

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.