- When you know your about to be born -

But 3xi your limiting my statements on free will. I never said dont control your thoughts, I said link them to God's will. And this is something that can only happen once you've attuned yourself to the Intelligence behind the light of creation. I also believe God is within all of His creation as you do, but what is creation? What is Mother Nature? It's not eternal I can tell you that much. And being individuals? Is a rock an individual rock, being that it came from a mountain, and it's resting place is......where? Individuality, or duality, is the illusion. We are One *

 

Dilli, I know from talking to you over the years that you Know. No need to describe it really, your position in God consciousness is obvious as it comes across in the way you handle people, even if its just on the forum that I talk to you. We can discuss different opinions about God all day, as apparently 3xi and I are just starting to :tongue: But what it all comes down to is Love , and if you cant fold up an arguemnt and say "We all know nothing but Love" then your on the wrong path, surely. 3xi and I have had our battles of God argument before, but we've come out on top as friends, so I have no problem with discussing our different opinions on here
I may use a lot of crazy words, and have strong opinion on God, and I feel it is my right to speak freely on them here. But I never want to insinuate that I know everything and everyone else is wrong. Im just sharing what has been shared with me, everyone is free to take it or laught at it. But at the end of the day when I sit before God in devotion, I know that it's all just words attempting to gain control over our perception of the Absolute, and He always forgives me my limited human consciousness *

 

i am sure you can understand where i got confused.

lets not forget that we need an ego to exist and survive. if i don't make the conscious decision to eat i will die. if we do not take control we will not survive. we can meditate and do exercise where we let go but if we did this all the time we would die.

 

Right, we do need a consciousness to survive. But, what I am saying is that we can strive to attune our consciousness to God's will, and everything we do will be automatically pure. But this is not something so easily attained and I dont want people to misunderstand this point. It takes much self discipline and effort to push beyond all veils of delusion.
But see this is not exactly the ego. The ego is not your consiousness, the ego is only your identification with duality and the manas (mind, or intelligence) is what the discriminating ability is, the ability to either see everything as relates to your individual ego, or the ability to see it all as one. So the ego can be destroyed and the body will still function with health, but to get to living in this soul state at all times takes Christ level consciousness, or attuning your mind to God's will.

 

i agree with 3xi. there is no point to life if we are here without free will. but really we will never know.
when i trip, it is always like a gradual effect kind of thing. the first time i tripped...i thought i knew the definitive truth about everything and there was nothing left that could blow my mind. the next time i tripped, the same thing happened, just a little deeper. But I dont think there is a point where we come to true understanding. i dont think we will ever really know, at least not until death.

 

i agree with most of what you are saying...

the way i understand it is that we need at least a thread of ego to exist. you can not exist without knowing that you do and even just knowing that you exist is ego. i believe that there are many varying degrees of an ego - some people have an inflamed ego when others exist with little ego.

i am doing what i can to shed my ego but do not expect to ever get rid of my ego completely when i am alive.

i have had moments of ego loss while meditating or under the influence of psychedelic drugs but i don't believe it is possible to exist in this form without an ego for very long at all.

 

neodude, this is because the only reality is Love. God is Love, pure and simple. All complexities arise because we dont understand. The whole point of this thread is that you are using your mind to comprehend the incomprehensible. When you are looking for knowledge, you will never find it. The mind is the part that is created in God's image, because the mind creates every moment the bodily host is nourished and pumping. But it is the soul that is all knoweldge, God is the only reality. You will never 'know' everything because there is in fact, nothing to 'know'. If you are looking for answers to life's question's you will always come up empty handed. Free will is an illusion, of course you believe in it, just like you believe there is a Sun and a ground to walk on. But are they eternal? Neither is free will.

 

what about "seek with all your heart, and you shall surely find me"


I really dont understand what you are saying about free will. are you saying that everything is preordained? or that we are just so predictable it doesn't even matter? and also, your post about all of us being one is a little disturbing...i think we exist as individuals.

 

We exist as individual ego's, trapped in individual minds, trapped in individual bodies. But our soul's are all the same. We are one as one soul, we come from the same God and we die in the same God.
And everything is preordained but I would rather use the term programmed, like a code. We can manipulate that which is our enviorment, but this doesn't mean we have free will. Even if you look at it in the simplest light, all soul's go to heaven, where is the free will? If we die and all go to God, what is free will then? Unless you believe some of us go to hell for eternity, in which I case I really dont know what to say.
I probably shouldn'y debate this point any longer beceause obviously if you want to believe that you have free will, nothing is going to change your mind. I've seen time unfold, rewind, and happen again several times. How is this possible? My expereince is that karma is a blueprint of existance and nothing can change that. Even your desire to make yourself a better person and commit acts which would bring you good karma, is a part of the blueprint of existance, itself. God's creation is far more detailed than some subatomic particles composed of vibration and energy. God's creation is perfect, it is exact, and it is much like a program codes at it's core.

 

thats true

but that’s not true...

there are many truths in life and like you have already pointed out LOVE is the answer. life brings many questions and many people(myself included) have found the answers to many of our questions.

i hear what you are saying but the way that you say it does not make sense.

examples
what is 2+2?
should you lie to someone you love?
should i exercise?
the answers are so obvious.

even questions like
who am i?
where do i belong?
and what is life about?
are questions worth asking... i have found my own answers to these questions and this helps me in life.

we are given a mind to use in a good way or a bad way. the way you come at it, it seems like you feel like this mind, body experience is more of a hell than anything else. although i would agree that hell is very real and exists right here in the mind and body’s of many people i also believe that this physical existence can be a wonderful place.

it is about making good choices. remembering always to do on to others as you would have done onto yourself. think before you act. think about how other people might be effected by the choices you make. learn to love yourself and all those around you.

life is actually very simple. there are many questions in life that are not worth your time to answer like how big is jupiter? although many people amaze themselves with trivial questions all the time and many people have even made a lot of money writing books about stuff that doesn't really matter. life is simple in that it is about love and being the best person you can be at all times. every day should be about learning and growing. take care of your health and take care of your environment.

life is a beautiful thing and we should be thankful that we have a mind and an ego to enjoy it.

 

" - when you know your about to be born - "

when i was young i would have this recurring dream. actually it was a nightmare at the time but when i look back i see it for what it was.

in this waking dream i would be in this infinite black open space with nothing in it. i could actually feel something that i can not describe but i could not feel anything around me or see anything around me. that place was very uncomfortable for me as i was only a child and the void was unfamiliar to me. all of a sudden i was in a bright room surrounded by faces looking down on me - this part was terrifying. sometimes i would go through the dream a few times before i would wake up in a sweat and run to my parents to sleep with them.

when i was in grade 7 my teacher asked the class if anyone ever had a recurring dream so i told her my story. i remember her reaction was amazement as she told me that i was re-living my child birth. i was so young that this didn't really mean anything to me. as i grew up this became more relevant. i had the dream only a few times after my teens but i have had the same feeling that i had in the dream on more than one occasion during an LSD trip. i have experienced the void many times and this is not what i am talking about, there was this distinct feeling that i can not describe.

basically thanx to my dreams i can remember my child birth and although it was a terrifying experience i am glad i can remember.

 

i just read your first post.. cause i'm too lazy to read the rest..

but that sounds sooo cool! lol

omg i'm jealous.. i need lsd.. now. lol

 

well actually you dont have to quit talking about it. I don't consider us debating because you dont REALLY know, and I dont REALLY know. I do enjoy talking about it though and hearing what other poeple think.

the subject of hell i've always wanted to talk to you about. i dont really know what i believe when it comes to that. i'd like to hear what you think.

 

free will is a pecuilar thing to me
because obviously it is there and I can go out and do anything
but typically I find there is only one thing that I actually want to do

and about this " i have experienced the void many times"
everytime you experience it, do you feel like you've been completely demolished and have to build yourself back up from ground zero?

 

Let's say that there is no free will. Does it really matter? We will always live life as though we do have a free will, and will never notice our lack of control; and our life will still feel the same - None of this changes the experience of life.

 

According to Stuart Wilde, author of a number of books on consciousness (Sixth Sense, infinite self, the power of silence) , free will is for amateurs.

directly quoted from his book Gods Gladiators:

"If I told you the secret to this human evolution is very simple, many would not believe me. The mind likes complexity. It's how it controls you. The worst nazi in the world is in your mind. The nazis of World War II were our shadow externalized and made horrifically real. Each of the Nazis' victims were killed in part by their own shadow. It's hard to comprehend as we are entwined and bound by ideas of right and wrong, good and evil. We need right and wrong so we can feel special. As a victim you imagine you have rights; compensation is due. You expect to stand elevated and special in the eyes of others, who will hopefully commiserate and assist you through your pain. The cult of the victim is a commercial business. It's the outcropping of our need for easy money, attention, and glamour.

The mind and your identity within it, the ego, is no different. It also wants control and attention. It will never let you out of its' prison. It cons you into thinking it knows. usually what it thinks it knows is misinformation, offered as ludicrous ideas-it's the minds' guessing game. When the mind moves from guessing to action, we call it free will. Free will was invented to create confusion. It's the way the sphere ensures that escaping prisoners make little or no headway.

Free-will is sold to us as vital and special and all-important. Vast tomes are dedicated to it. It's spoon-fed to you as something you can't do without. The idea of free will is cleverly cloaked to hide its' lethal characteristics, knowing it will appeal to your ego's need for specialness; playing to your need to be separate and individual. The idea is tap-tapped into your mind as a woodpecker taps a tree. You are offered free will as a pillar in the human rights' edifice; something to be defended and to die for. It's placed sneakily into the American national identity, "... land of the free [Will]." Welcome to the invisible prison of the sphere. The prison you probably insist is no there.

.....

Let go of free will. It's a con game, a very clever one. It's the very best of reverse psychology. Tell people to fight for free will, tell them how important it is. In this way you glue the idea to their arrogance and their need for identity. Then once the idea hardens and is accepted, sit back and watch people give over to it. watch the pitiful sight of prisoners dying to defend the camp guards who stand over them in the watch tower. The subtlety of the manipulation is unbelievable. Almost no one has seen it. Some have intuited its existence, but they are ridiculed into silence. And very few know how to rotate out of the snare it uses to capture the mind, disallowing real information and personal truth. This reality is a zoo."

Something or nothing, take it for whatever it's worth..

 

Maybe that's what Jesus meant by turn the other cheek.

But do you just let people walk over you, or not? I know that defends the ego, but how can that be allowed to happen?

Does a lack of fighting for free will also mean that you shouldn't tell others to find it, either? Cause you're subscribing to what's good and bad and you are showing that you have ego, in a sense.

I mean; What is the difference between someone telling you to fight for free will and someone that tells you that free will is a myth and that you should just let it go and just live and experience because holding onto it is dangerous?

 

Good point. Once the idea is introduced to consciousness one can choose to throw it out or choose to believe in it. I (choose?) to forget about it (neutral) as I do many other things. Either I choose to write this or I do not have the choice, either way I am here writing it. Like you said free will or not, does it really matter? we are still right here and I'm not certain wether we got here because of free will or not.. if we realize we do or do not have free will, will that change anything?

 

what a depressing thought! so if i'm here only as some robot or remote control person why would i bother? why would a higher conciousness bother? what's the point?


i believe when we are part of the one we decide to come here because its the only way to appreciate and understand being part of the one--by not being it for once. for example, my soul figured out it was part of the light but didn't know what that meant, so i propelled myself into darkness so that i could "get it" or something.

i believe we are here for experience--how we percieve or what we do with that experience is the measure of our greatness--or humbleness.

about ego....do you believe jesus, ghandi or mother teresa lived without ego? doubtful. it takes a huge ego to believe you can feed 5000 people with 2 fish and a few loaves of bread and then actually pull it off! or like ghandi--took a big fucking ego to bring down the british empire with a simple hunger strike or like mother teresa that forced her way into mafia leaders offices demanding money so she could clean up their mess. she would have to have a huge ego to be that agressive and get away with it--yet she did it successfully--time & time again.

ego can be crippling--but if the soul inside the body drives the ego with holy intentions then i believe the ego can be fuel for doing great things in the world like jesus, ghandi & mother teresa did.

 

We tend to think we are of higher consciousness, does that make it true? If we are the one and only consciousness then what can be higher about it? Truth is, I am not any more conscious then the trees or my dogs but I am a part of both. What makes me more conscious? I am no different from them. Even though sometimes I might like to think I am (ego) the fact remains I am not; if in fact we are all one consciousness, that makes us all one in the same. I don't claim to have the answers nor do I want to. I like things as they are clouded with mystery. If we knew everything, what would be the point? Some things we will never know. We might like to think we do or we will but we won't.

Part of the problem is people tend to think that they have to do something or have to get somewhere, whether it is spiritually or not. When really all it takes is realizing you are already exactly where you should be. There isn't anywhere to go or anything to become, because you already are; thats why you were placed into existence. The fact that people try so hard to be something or do something takes them farther away from that (their natural self). It's easy to see this in children. Human beings are divine and eternal, all of them. If Jesus lived, he did so without ego. A person that is 100% full of compassionate love has no ego to protect..