http://apnews.myway.com//article/20040919/D856VE883.html Another little snippet of news about the middleast. It bugged me, really bugged me. We are getting a bad rep throughout the world, it seems. "Crusaders" they call us. I don't know, but for some reason I feel even the US's opponents are seeking political gain in some way. Power is always likely. But we must do something. I strongly encourage everyone to vote, but I cannot say Kerry is a better selection. Politics are all talk. We don't know what Kerry will do if he wins... But we do know what Bush will do. I personally believe Bush will lead us into more trouble. Kerry is in the fog. Are we willing to take that chance? Is there some safety and reason beyond the shady promises of election time? I sure hope so.
Adding to that, more should be done than just vote. Surely, it is a given that we must use the tools given to us by our forefathers. If you don't use it, it will be taken from you. Our complatiency recently has gone beyond intolerable. The greatest danger isn't the terrorists, it is ourselves. Our decisions, our attitudes are used by those in power, and those in power may abuse us in our times of vulnerability. All I am saying is: We must educate ourselves! Know, learn, study! Become stronger individuals in our own way and light. We have the potential to become a great nation, not just a great bully with clever tricks and no true understanding and consideration for others. I am in no way saying we are all in such a saddening state. There are plenty here who are active, but I think we all need a little boost here and there, or even a reminder -- something to keep us going. Please, whoever you are reading this, contribute to the cause in your own way. Music, literature, protests... Whatever it may be. If a considerable amount of individuals take action, not only will we be truely able to influence the elections, but also the path our nation is headed.
It's already happening though. There's a huge global justice movment...all I can say is...jump on board!
I believe our rights are slowly being chipped away at. I don't know if its been announced, but there's another Patriot Act, which is anything but. Drug testing is being pushed for in schools for all students. These same schools have become almost prisons, w/ armed security guards and metal detectors. All in the name of SAFETY. Public safety. Too many people look at the extremist solutions w/o ever THINKING about the issue. Just another quick fix to soothe our conscious. I hate to say this, but its true: too many people are caught up in their own little worlds to care about the "big" picture. If it doesnt seem to effect them, they don't care. Apathy will destroy the country. There is something that everyone could do, even if it is just educating yourself. THINK! My generation has apparently forgotten to do so. At least the majority has... Peace Kim "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. " Benjamin Franklin
Sure is, the Patriot Act II Some highlights Americans could have their citizenship revoked, if found to have contributed "material support" to organizations deemed by the government, even retroactively, to be "terrorist." As Hentoff wrote in the Feb. 28 Village Voice: "Until now, in our law, an American could only lose his or her citizenship by declaring a clear intent to abandon it. But -- and read this carefully from the new bill -- 'the intent to relinquish nationality need not be manifested in words, but can be inferred from conduct.'" (Italics Hentoff's.) Legal permanent residents (like, say, my French wife), could be deported instantaneously, without a criminal charge or even evidence, if the Attorney General considers them a threat to national security. If they commit minor, non-terrorist offenses, they can still be booted out, without so much as a day in court, because the law would exempt habeas corpus review in some cases. As the American Civil Liberties Union stated in its long brief against the DSEA, "Congress has not exempted any person from habeas corpus -- a protection guaranteed by the Constitution -- since the Civil War." The government would be specifically instructed not to release any information about detainees held on suspicion of terrorist activities, until they are actually charged with a crime. Or, as Hentoff put it, "for the first time in U.S. history, secret arrests will be specifically permitted." American citizens could be subject to secret surveillance by their own government on behalf of foreign countries, including dictatorships. And that's just the tip of the iceburg... http://www.alternet.org/story/15541 http://www.eff.org/Censorship/Terrorism_militias/patriot-act-II-analysis.php http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12161&c=206
I take it no one here has heard of the omnibus act? It had far more reaching possibilities to harm a persons civil liberties yet no one complained about it. The patriot act is no where near as invasive as the omnibus act yet you all act like your liberties have already been trampled on. If they weren't trampled on with the omnibus act then they wont be with the patriot act. Trust me..As a wife of a former cop who is now working in homeland security none of you would have a clue as to how hard it is to "go after" someone. There is enough red tape and warrant issued to make anyone want to cry from frustration. It really is a wonder America "catches" anyone at all. When you see the FBI knocking on someones door they have so much proof on that person it is a wonder they dont have the identity of Jimmy Hoffa's burial place. Oh and for that reason I trust Bush to protect my rights so I will be voting for him this election. If you dont know about protecting this nation and havent been on the battlegrounds to save others lives then you dont need to be spouting your opinions as documented facts!
Are you talking about Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA)? or National Parks Omnibus Management Act of 1998 or Omnibus Appropriations Act for Fiscal Year 1999 or NATIVE AMERICAN OMNIBUS ACT or Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 What are you talking about?
I didn't post my opinion about the Patriot Act II...I posted the facts. What the act will allow. "If they weren't trampled on with the omnibus act then they wont be with the patriot act. Trust me..As a wife of a former cop who is now working in homeland security none of you would have a clue as to how hard it is to "go after" someone. There is enough red tape and warrant issued to make anyone want to cry from frustration. It really is a wonder America "catches" anyone at all. When you see the FBI knocking on someones door they have so much proof on that person it is a wonder they dont have the identity of Jimmy Hoffa's burial place." So much proof, huh? So then where's the WMD? And I don't mind some red tape. I definitely want to limit the gov'ts power to tap my phone, see what books I am checking out, or deport me.
Ahh so young and so dumb....Geez when your phone gets tapped believe me you have deserved it. Untill you have been in law enforcement you will NEVER know the facts. Just because you read it doesn't mean that is how it is applied. Till you have been in law enforcement you will NEVER know how hard it is to get a warrent to do such things you are soooo scared of.....Stop watching movies as it does not serve you well. I guess I get so sick of people talking about the Patriot act which coincidently is faaaar less invasive and intrusive to peoples civil liberties than the Omnibus act yet no ever complained about the Omnibus act which was penned by Clinton back in the early nineties. THAt act DID give free reign to tap phones extensively! Now when the government is more cautious than ever about trampling on peoples civil liberties and making it so difficult for law enforcement to do their jobs it is very lucky that America hasn't had any major acts of terrorism at all.. But it sounds like maybe you do want some terrorism in America. Because after all, your rights are faaaar more precious than say your mom's or someone elses mom's life! Right?
Knowing someone who used to work for law enforcement doesn not give you license to be a bitch. And I am the daughter of a former cop, so does that give me some sort of special inside knoweldge to claim others don't know anything? And about the Omnibus Act, well sorry I was only 10 at the beginning of the Clinton years, and that I wasn't so into politics... I am fighting the issues of my time, and you can deny that the patriot act infringed on our civil liberties all you want, but saying that something else was worse doesn't make the Patriot Act any less worse. And for the typical pro-war rhetoric of "you're either with us or against us" don't give me that shit. I am not pro-terrorism in America because I do not like the patriot act. That is just idiocy, and you call me dumb... Oh, and movies have nothing to do with my preception of the real world, BTW. SO you should stop acting like you actually know me. And everything that I have read about the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995 (which i assume was the one you were talking about) is that it wasn't passed like that, and the authority was greatly watered down by congress and house. http://www.opednews.com/hersh_080404_republicans_sabotaged.htm http://www.cnn.com/US/9604/18/anti.terror.bill/index.html Sheesh, and you wonder why people's impression of law enforcement is so bad. You don't even know me, yet in one post called me dumb, pro-terror, and living in the movies....yeah, you are exactly the type of person I want protecting me, my mom, or this country... (Even though you are more than likely nothing but a paper-pusher for homeland security...I certainly hope you aren't the one applying the laws.) Oh, and for YOUR education, here is information about the cases of abuse using the Patriot Act so far: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/21/attack/main564189.shtml http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Patriot_Act_abuses http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/21/justice.civil.liberties/ If you are going to come here to debate, why don't YOU stop acting so young and dumb and try to show some respect.
Thank you for aurguing FOR ME! I could use the same exact arguement that you dont know law enforcement and how they have used the Patriot act first hand to be qualified to talk about it. Using biased sources like disinfopedia is a poor example of qualified proof. First off the cnn news report is a complilation of complaints. Of course people are going to complain. You dont expect a guilty person to fess up to their misdeed do you? Second as far as disinfopedia is concerned anyone can set up a website and call themselves the truth. Where are all the documents to back their statements up? Oh and "other websites or news entities" dont count. Just check out the trouble Dan Rather is in to see what I am talking about. Third CBS has an incredible credibility issue and if you cant see that ALL media spins shit to whatever issue they are trying to promote then you my youngling have a lot to learn. As far as the omnibus act goes it is very relavant to the Patriot act. The patriot act was during the Bush admin penned to "protect" peoples rights in "light" of the far reaching scope of the omnibus act. You see the bottom line is this....You can give me all "your" truths but untill you walk a mile in all of law enforcment officers shoes (FBI, Secret Service, Postal Inspecters, ATF, DEA etc...) you have no idea how hard it is to do that job AND keep yours. The utmost care and consideration is takin into accountability for peoples rights. These are NOT the billy baddasses you see on hollywood tv dramas that like to bully people around. Every "T" must be crossed and every "i" dotted. Warrents must be issued for damn near everything you do. Warrents are very hard to come by. Judges DO NOT issue them out like candy. Most of the time you have to have some EXTREMELY compelling evidence to get one and even then you need a note from GOD for permission. There are many safegards to protect peoples right AND in this day and age it is all too easy to lose ones job for violating peoples rights. So tell me...Where is the incentive to abuse people knowing if you do you may never work again, could lose everything when you get sued, or worse end up in jail?
Instead of wasting money for armed guards in school, lets get some programs to help kids before it gets to violence!
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Patriot_Act_abuses has a list of external links to various sources. Including Miami Herald, New York Times, Boston Globe, Washington Post, Chicago Business, etc... Why wouldn't they count? Because they don't fit with YOUR view on things? ANd now is every journalist Dan Rather? He aired a story based off false information. Our president started a war based off false information. Which is more severe, do you think? From the cnn.com link I gave you: "For the period of December 16 to June 15, 34 allegations were deemed credible and are being investigated by various officials within the department. Those 34 were among 1,073 complaints received during the period that suggested a Patriot Act-related civil rights or civil liberties connection. " http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/21/justice.civil.liberties/ There are far more sources for this than just CBS. Thats the first time I've heard that one. Care to offer up any information relevant to your claim? And since you don't like CNN, CBS, New York Times, Washington Post, Boston Globe, etc...it may be diffucult. Besides, What of the information I presented about the obmibus act being watered down by the house? I don't think it even passed legislation under the same title. http://www.cnn.com/US/9604/17/antiterrorism.bill/index.html Senate passes anti-terrorism bill April 17, 1996 "But it drops a provision, backed by the Clinton administration, that would have made it easier to wiretap phones of suspected terrorists. Such wiretapping is already permitted in organized crime probes." Remember, you did say: This is all you can say? All you've done is come here with your opinion, and expect us to take it on fact because your the wife of an ex-cop and push papers for homeland security. You start talking about some Omnibus Act, but don't offer any resources to your information, nor happen to clarify until asked, which of the many omnibus acts out there. I don't mind debating, but why should any of us take information based on your word? Basically, you rush to discredit anyone with opposing views - yet bring no credit to the table yourself.
That wouldnt be a bad idea per se. However your idea wouldnt have helped all those children in Beslan now would it.
I will give proof whan I have been offered proof. How about some de-classified info for starts? I am sorry but ALL news people provide opinions and NO facts UNLESS they coincide with their beliefs. And when did news people become experts in the field of terrorism? Ok since you want proof try reading the article in the Washington times. http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040926-115545-3667r.htm I need something more concrete than what you said a young girl with no experience in the world and no expertise AND a newsie who has never even studied terrorism. Yeah the media ALWAYS tells the truth. HAHAHAHAHA
You were the one who started making claims about the omnibus act, not me. All you have offered so far is opinions, and no facts. And I have already shown you how your claims about the Omnibus Act and things like phone-tapping were just not true. Oh please. If that's the best you can come up with you might as well go back to your patriot pages. Your age does not make you any more capable of understanding than mine does. The content of your debate so far has been: "Ahh so young and so dumb...." "Stop watching movies as it does not serve you well." "But it sounds like maybe you do want some terrorism in America. " "I will give proof whan I have been offered proof. " "I need something more concrete than what you said a young girl with no experience in the world and no expertise AND a newsie who has never even studied terrorism" Who sounds like the adult here, and who sounds like the child? You have brought no real information to the table. You only insult, attack my age and intelligence (like you actually know anything about me), and make rediculous comment's like I support terrorism becuase I didn't agree with you. When you learn how to debate, then we can continue the conversation.
