Ten Questions For Atheists & Religious Folks

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by Okiefreak, Jan 20, 2008.

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  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Okiefreak and rebelfight420,

    Yes, I was trying to hit a nerve. Why beat around the bush? I will tone down my responses, if you like, as neither of you has responded to what I had to say.
    I was trying to make a point by being rude, aggressive, and dismissive. By being all of the above no one responeded to what I had to say. Neither for nor againest. I was ignored, and I presume, my opinion was given little credence.
    This is, in my opinion, what happens in in these types of debates. No ones' mind is changed.
    And no consideration was given to my arguments.
    Allow me to rephrase: This is an improper question based on a number of unproven assumptions. #1 There is no such thing as "supernatural". Anything that happens is natural, it may happen rarely, or even one time only, but the act of happening in the natural environment makes it natural. #2. This question also presupposes that any "supernatural" happening is seperate, or can be seperated, from it's "numinous" and "spiritual" elements. It seems to suggest that the "numinous" is caused by the "spiritual", which leads us into a discussion of the merits of the reality of cause and effect. No one addressed these points, pro or con.
    No one wishes to debate my point that science and religion are both faith based?
    So I have to be nice and point out that these panelist don't realize that good and evil, safe and dangerous, etc. are all relative terms? I have to be "politically correct" and nicey nicey to such a leading, simplistic postulate?
    I'm gritting my teeth. I am not sure who came up with these questions. again, how could we know? This question is just designed to let the answerer vent wild speculation.
    So now I'm supposed to list how many lives were changed, what charities helped, etc. Have they never heard the story of the chinese gentleman whose son broke his leg? "Oh, bad luck!", said his friends, "We shall see." said the gentleman. How can we know the ultimate outcome of any good deed or redeeming quality?
    Was I not nice enough with this answer? I believe one of the gentleman in the article gave the same basic answer as I did.
    This is a complicated question as neither term is defined. I suggested a reading of Ken Wilbur's theories as he has explored this subject extensively and has several definitions for each term and argues that they are compatable, depending on the definition of the terms.
    Sigh....This question is very leading. If I answer one way I admit to a god, the other, no god. I will restate: the universe is what it is, that's all. Have we even agreed as to what intellegence is yet? Or God, or the univese, and what in the world does "finely tuned" mean? Can it be a little out of tune so instead of an intellegent universe we have a dumb or even slight retarded one? Huh?
    This is a leading questin saying "If the universe has intellegence it can only be because of God."
    I'm sorry, cover your monitor, or skip a few lines here my brain is going to explode ....Assuming God and evolution both exist,...God would be the one that made evolution so...compatible. If one or the other don't exist,..how could they be compatible?
    BANG!!! Sorry...I seem to have gotten brain matter all over my keyboard.


    ....I gotta go find a rag to clean up this mess.....
     
    MeAgain, Jan 28, 2008
    #21
  3. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up.
     
    Okiefreak, Jan 28, 2008
    #22
  5. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Okiefreak, Feb 2, 2008
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  7. Grey Kameleon

    Grey Kameleon Member

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    While it may be tempting to blame 'religion', we need to remember that organized religion and human insecurity may not be so inseparable. If we eliminate Christianity, Islam, and every other organized religion, people will find other viewpoints to become attached to. I have actually seen this happen to atheists. It seems that even disbelief is more comforting than uncertainty and danger.

    The problem is that the majority of people are not totally independent, self-actualized people, or scientists, or existentialists, or whatever. It is true that some religions are designed to control, and people get sucked in, but when I see Bible-beaters, I don't see victims. I see people who know how to get the security they need.
     
    Grey Kameleon, Feb 2, 2008
    #24
  9. MollyBoston

    MollyBoston Fluffer

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    Okay, I'll bite...

    (1) respect/objectivity: Do atheists and religious folks respect each other's point of view, or are they rude, aggressive and dismissive toward each other?
    I don't think you can generalize about either group. There are respectful people, and also assholes, on both sides. I think religious folks tend to be more aggressive about it, because it's a more important issue to them.

    (2) numinous vs. supernatural:Is it possible/desirable to separate the "numinous" (sense of mystery, wonder,awe, & spirituality;accompanying emotional high) element from the supernatural aspects of spirituality, and retain the former while discarding the latter?
    I suppose. I don't believe in either, but I don't see why someone else shouldn't believe in one and not the other.

    (3) faith and reason/science: Is faith compatible with reason/science?
    I think it is, yes.

    (4) dangers and benefits of atheism & religion: are atheism and religion dangerous? Would the world be better off without either? If so, do they have any redeeming qualities?
    Religion has been used to control the poor and to justify war - but then, so have other weird ideas, like "patriotism". There's also been great art made in the name of religion. Without it, I think we'd still have all the wars and all the art - we'd find some other way to justify both.

    (5) science and God: Can God be studied scientifically? Are religion and science compatible?
    No, I don't think God can be studied - but I do think they're compatible. It's fine to believe in science and also a higher power. (Although if you believe that any religious text is literally true, you will have some trouble.)

    (6) finely tuned universe and God: Is the universe finely tuned for intelligent life, and if so, is that evidence for God?
    I have no idea and neither does anyone else, yet.

    (7) God and evolution: Is evolution compatible with God?
    Sure.

    (8) altruism: does human altruism prove God?
    Not at all. It proves empathy, which is a pretty basic and easily-understood concept.

    (9) miracles: Can miracles happen, and if so, are they compatible with science?
    No, I don't think they can; by definition, I believe a miracle defies science.

    (10) war of ideas: Who is winning, atheism or religion? Is victory possible/desirable for either?
    I think victory is possible for atheists, because we're right :) - but I think the "war" swings both ways from time to time, and right now we atheists are losing badly.
     
    MollyBoston, Feb 2, 2008
    #25
  11. Meretrix

    Meretrix Member

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    I believe the majority of people do not respect each other and people always say that if it's not the same as them then it is 'wrong.' I believe people need to learn to coexist and stop fighting about such trivial matters. (Yes I think religion and/or atheism is trivial in the cosmic scheme of everything, but this is VERY different from any devoted religious follower)
    Things happen, I believe life needs some mystery. Some things can be explained now, and the things that can't will be in the future; I guarantee it. 600 years ago people didn't know the earth was round, and you were a heretic for suggesting it. Proving that is just an example of how radical ideas could be true.
    No. They together cannot be, but the people that follow each should still coexist.
    People should be able to do whatever to make them happy and not be judged for it. If following a religion makes you happy, then go for it, if not then don't.
    Today God can't be studied, but in the future, who knows? And I don't think they are truely compatible, but that shouldn't cause dispute between people.
    No, it is not in my mind.
    Yes, people were combining them shortly after Darwin release his theory of evolution.
    No, altruism is psychological.
    Yes, and I think they can be compatible, and if not today, then in the future they will be; technology can only show so much today.
    There should be no 'war.' Learn to coexist.
     
    Meretrix, Feb 4, 2008
    #26
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