Nicotine - dark horse of "Cannabis psychosis"

Here's something you may find interesting regarding nicotine – the dark horse of Cannabis psychosis.

Cannabis psychosis studies have a major flaw by not including the potential brain damaging effects of nicotine. Also, there is a close correlation between mental illness levels in both tobacco and Cannabis users. This needs to be explained.

Many Cannabis smokers also include tobacco in their mix, and consequently high nicotine levels occur due to the deep inhalation smoking pattern typical in Cannabis consumption. Toxicological research has found that nicotine severely damages a portion of brain in rodents, the fasciculus retroflexus (Carlson et al 2000, Carlson et al 2001, Abreu-Villaca et al 2005), which corresponds with the part of the brain responsible for behavourial control in humans. There is no indication that Cannabis alone causes this type of brain damage. The underlying brain damage caused by nicotine may explain some of the mental disorders ascribed to Cannabis users (Patton et al 2002).

There is a need to clarify the situation regarding the role of nicotine in so-called Cannabis psychosis with further research, as health advice could include specific warnings as to the potential psychiatric risks of smoking tobacco mixed with Cannabis.

A hypothesis regarding nicotine being a major underlying causal factor in so-called Cannabis psychosis reads as follows. Please comment.

First part:
That high, sudden dose of nicotine associated with tobacco and Cannabis co-consumption may cause significant degeneration of the fasciculus retroflexus (FR) in humans. The sudden high nicotine doses in humans’ may cause an axon excitotoxicological response via nicotinic receptors in the FR.

Discussion: FR degeneration by the nicotine is proven in rat studies (Carlson 2000, Carlson 2001, Abreu-Villaca 2005). It’s uncertain as to how these nicotine toxicology studies may apply to humans. However, damage to FR could explain high rates of depression in tobacco smoking youth (Goodman et al 2000).

The 2nd part:
That degeneration of the fasciculus retroflexus in humans (refer to first part), resulting from high, sudden doses of tobacco co-consumed with Cannabis, could result in reduced higher brain control over behaviour (Carlson 2000, Carlson 2001). Cannabis then exaggerates any negative emotional states due to the underlying brain damage caused by nicotine, especially in some predisposed individuals.

Discussion: the question arises - is nicotine brain damage a reason for the higher incidence of depression in tobacco smokers. Research shows a 4-fold increase in adolescent depression after a year of moderate to heavy tobacco use (Goodman 2000).

But how’s this for a coincidence: Cannabis research (Patton 2002) showed a comparable 2 to 5 fold increased risk of depression by age 20 in Cannabis smokers. Does this comparable figure reflect co-use of tobacco by Cannabis users - rather than Cannabis itself being the cause of depression?

But the coincidences between tobacco and Cannabis go further: The level of schizophrenics who have been Cannabis users is up to 80% in some cases. This correlation is given as a reason to be concerned about Cannabis use. However, 75 to 90% of schizophrenics also smoke tobacco.

Is it a coincidence that mental illness levels are similar with tobacco and Cannabis smokers?

Have Cannabis researchers overlooked nicotine as the dark horse in so-called Cannabis psychosis?

 

you don't have internet links to the studies it's referring to do you? very interesting though

 

yeah if thihs is true does it affect you if you smoke a bowl and then smoke a cig

 

That's basically what I got from it. Smoking a cig then a bowl or vice versa is no good for you. I don't think theres much need to worry though, 80% of schizophrenics may have smoked weed, but I'm not sure of the number but probably .1% of pot smokers get schizophrenia.

 

Good lookin out Sted. Yea. I quit tobaco 5 years ago. I usedta always smoke a cig and inhale d3eaply after a bowl for a heavy added buzz. Almost like heroin. I also remember that each time I got released from a corectional vasility and had my first cigaret I'd get so fukkin high that I felt like I was doin 90 units of scag. Tobaco, in the state that its in today is from the devil. I feel a whole lot beter since I quit and I feel like a fool for smokin them cigarets for as long as I did. I think it might even make ya stupid too. Im not tryin to be smart or nothin but I think it might actually make ya stupid. I shure felt stupid while I smoked them. Realy good lookin out.

 

Here are some relevant references. Sorry I haven't specific websites, but they should be accessible via google.

Nicotine brain damage:
Abreu-Villaca Y; Seidler FJ; Qiao D; Tate CA; Cousins MM; Thillai I et al. Short-term adolescent nicotine exposure has immediate and persistent effects on cholinergic systems: Critical periods, patterns of exposure, dose thresholds. Neuropsychopharmacology 28(11): 1935-1949, 2003. (84 refs.)

Carlson, J., Armstrong, B., Switzer, R.C. 3rd, and Ellison, G. Selective Neurotoxic Effects of Nicotine on Axons in Fasciculus Retroflexus Further Support Evidence That This is a Weak Link in Brain Across Multiple Drugs of Abuse. Neuropharmacology, 39(13), pp. 2792-2798, 2000.

Carlson,J., Noguchi,K., Ellison,G. Nicotine produces selective degeneration in the medial habenula and fasciculus retroflexus.. Brain Research 2001; 906(--):127-134.

Nicotine correlation with psychosis:
Aguilar MC, Gurpegui M, Diaz FJ, de Leon J. Nicotine dependence and symptoms in schizophrenia: naturalistic study of complex interactions. Br J Psychiatry. 2005 Mar;186:215-21.

Goodman,E., Capitman,J. Depressive Symptoms and Cigarette Smoking Among Teens. Pediatrics, 106: pp. 748-755, October 2000.

Relevant nicotine receptor research:
Schulz DW, Loring RH, Aizenman E, Zigmond RE., Autoradiographic localization of putative nicotinic receptors in the rat brain using 125I-neuronal bungarotoxin. J Neurosci. 1991 Jan;11(1):287-97.

Zol M., Clement, Lena C., Picciotta MR., Chaneux JP, Identification of Four Classes of Brain Nicotinic Recpetors Using (beta)2 Mutant Mice The Journal of Neuroscience, June 15, 1998, 18(12): 4481-4472

 

There's a problem, in that we are extrapolating from rat studies to human use patterns. But it seems that only moderate/heavy levels of nicotine were needed to cause significant brain damage in the rodents in a short period of time (5 days).

With tobacco mixed with Cannabis, there certainly is a worry with the nicotine levels, if what happens to the rats happens to people as well.

In some niches of Cannabis subculture tobacco is called "spin" (eastern Australia), describing the effect of the sudden ingestion of the nicotine along with the Cannabis. It clearly implies a high sudden dose of nicotine ingestion.

Smoking a cigarette usually doesn't create such spin effect. So it would seem that the nicotine is not as likely to reach such toxic levels. However, it only took five days at the equivalent of heavy tobacco smoking to cause the degeneration in the rodents! So probably any tobacco smoking is going to cause brain damage if this applies to humans as well - even just normal tobacco smoking.

The type of brain damage caused by nicotine is more likely to effect things like sleep patterns and emotional control.

The next question for former tobacco smokers: does the tobacco brain damage repair over time? A neurotoxicologist who I know said that there maybe a possibility of neurogenisis (brain cell repair) after abstaining from smoking tobacco.

But there's still some element of speclation, because there needs to be studies on human brains, to see if the brain damage is similar in humans. Afterall, there are some overt differences between rodents and humans brains.

 

well its an interesting idea ive considered, wont comment now, but i think nicotine has a role in mental illness. nevertheless, while 75-90% of schizophrenics smoke tobacco, i remember reading that many of them started smoking after they were diagnosed, because it was the easiest way to take their mind off things and give themself some motivation to do anything, as well as relieve some stress

 

Good comment StonerBill. There are many ways of interpreting the comparable levels of mental illness between tobacco and Cannabis. It maybe very difficult to actually untangle why there is this interesting coincidence in mental health levels in tobacco and Cannabis. But nicotine can't be avoided.

Let's go further, do the comparable numbers between tobacco and Cannabis mental health levels indiate they are trying to self-medicate via tobacco and Cannabis?

In the Goodman (2000) study they said that tobacco smoking adolescents developed depression WHILE they were smoking tobacco. But, as anybody should know, that period in life is a time of formulating ideas and perceptions about the world. And many sensitive and intelligent people realize that humanity makes many preventable mistakes. That could be cause for depression. But coincidently someone takes up smoking tobacco during that period - a preventable mistake . How can researchers pick-up on that finer attitudinal detail?

That's one example of why these statistical correlation type studies are dodgy when it comes to mental health issues.

But also, the comparable figures for mental illness between Cannabis and tobacco have the potential to neutralize the argument that Cannabis use causes mental illness.

However, the one thing that really implicates nicotine, which seperates it from Cannabis – in fact, a potential smoking gun – is the brain damage to the fasciculus retroflexus from nicotine. This is not just some statistical correlation study. This is incriminating evidence. It just has to be proved in humans.

Sure, people spin-out occasionally on pot, but unlike nicotine (and alcohol, MDMA, cocaine, crystal meth' etc ) there’s no evidence of permanent serious brain damage from Cannabis. But not so with nicotine, where nicotine brain damage could specifically reduce the ability to control behaviour. This dove-tails into nicotine playing a role into chronic mental illness.

An interesting question: why haven’t Cannabis researchers co-factored tobacco? After-all, it’s been six years since the nicotine brain damage research came out. One could speculate:
- that researchers have already gone public on their conclusions and are getting paid to go to seminars to present a ‘palatable’ Cannabis psychosis conclusion that supports status quo and simplistic assumptions on Cannabis users behaviour, and nicotine could cause a serious loss of face, including embarrassment to politicians who are also using the pseudo-psychosis argument;
- in deference of the governments anti-prohibition position, especially when government is a major funding source for research;
- potential difficulties in co-factoring tobacco with Cannabis research (but cross referencing different data sets is standard stuff in statistical analysis style science);
- co-factoring nicotine could confuse the message that Cannabis is ‘bad’ for mental health (this implies a pre-emptive conclusion – not real science);
- and/or, researchers know that nicotine is a serious co-factor, and are trying to avoid opening Pandora’s box by pretending nicotine doesn’t exist.

But as long as Cannabis psychosis proponents don’t address the tobacco co-factor adequately, Cannabis psychosis is a ‘carcass hanging in the wind’. And as such, is fair game for any activist.

There’s an interesting analogy in toxicology: a well known brand of herbicide was found to be killing frogs. People assumed it was the active ingredient in the preparation. But when they researched why the herbicide was killing the frogs they actually found it was the detergent blended into the product that was doing the frog killing.

It’s counter-intuitive to claim that nicotine maybe the culprit – but the evidence trail is there. The theory of Cannabis psychosis is a card castle, and nicotine is one of many weak links.

 

"But the coincidences between tobacco and Cannabis go further: The level of schizophrenics who have been Cannabis users is up to 80% in some cases."

when their refering to "schizophrenic... Cannabis users" where do they draw the line. This remindes me of an old wives tale about a youth whe murdered his family and admitted to smoking weed months before. the fact that 80% of schizophrenics indorse Cannabis use means nothing without more numbers.

 

This is very interesting. it really makes a lot of sense to me.

All the more reason for me to quit smoking

 

I am the only Marijuana smoker I know who does not smoke cigs... and I am healthier than all of them.

 

you mentioned a possible correlation between schizophrenia and cannabis consumption and/or tobacco consumption. The correlation between the mental illness and use of said materials is difficult to evaluate because an individual who has any type of illness or generally unwanted situation is more likely to want to relieve stress from that certain situation, in many cases the individual may turn to many forms of stress relief whether they are successful, helpful, or not they may continue using any means of relief
for instance I myself have depression with anxiety and have been dealing with its onset since an early age however in recent years it seems to have gone through lower lows and my anxiety has been more of a problem, but is this due to hormonal changes as I go through adolescents, or maybe due to several fairly life changing events, or maybe smoking pot? it is just about impossible to tell and is never certain of any combination of any of those things
anyhow, I'm just trying to say you cannot accurately pin symptoms to specific causes without first looking at the bigger picture(lifestyle, life changes, etc.) and furthermore you should always first look at the larger picture of the universe and work your way down, you may find things seem less significant and in doing so may form unbiased views or possible enlightenment in more than one way

 

yes lets all buy into the advocacy group funded "study" where people with PhDs are pretty much told what to write for money. Yay!

 

Obviously some futher studies must be done on this, but it does make a lot of sense. Hopefully some like Dutch research team will get on this ASAP, rather than say, a study funded by the United States government. Let's remove all possible bias (HA!).

Man I gotta quit cigs...

 

Another here, I've NEVER smoked tobacco, and I smoke cannabis very very frequently. I would be an optimum test subject for cannabis research. It's very unscientific to ascribe values and percentages to test groups when the variables have not been isolated. If 90% of schitzophrenics were also tobacco smokers, and 80% smoked cannabis, whats to say cannabis has anything to do with schitzophenia unless there was a study done of patients who had never smoked tobacco, and why are these figures not also examined along with the age demographic, and location.

Lets say test subject 'A' lived in Detroit in 1970, smoking tobacco every day, and cannabis several times a year- that subject would be in the same test group as subject 'B' who lived in Vancouver in 2007 and smoked cannabis every hour of every day but smoked tobacco only a few times a year.

Scientists working for government funded programs seeking to prove a correlation between cannabis and mental illness could publish statistics all they want but if the research is biased then WHY would any respectable scientific journal publish it.

Who cares if 80% of schitzophrenics smoked pot at some time, because according to the government ( http://www.drugabusestatistics.samhsa.gov/NSDUH/2k5nsduh/tabs/Sect1peTabs1to66.htm#Tab1.3B )
almost 60% of 18-25 year olds reported using pot in their lifetimes.

so if 60% of everyone has smoked and 80% of Schitzophrenics smoked... Theres no proof of causal relation.

Particularly if say 100% of scitzophrenics consumed tobacco and or alcohol, for instance.

ON A PERSONAL NOTE, I don't know of anyone who went crazy and blamed it on pot. Even if you're crazy, claiming that pot did it to you just sounds... CRAZY!