is a teacher necessary?

The trick, if one can do it, is to see the whole world as ones guru and desire to serve it and learn from it, the way one would a guru.

 

He didn't teach me that. I thought about similar ideas before I heard of him, but he just reinforced them. No, he did not agree with gurus or the disciple-guru relationship at all. Although, I agree he himself was somewhat a guru and that was his greatest folly. He died thinking no one understood his true message which truly was you are your greatest teacher and that no teacher is nessary. The reason he was so upset when he died was that he was a teacher himself and I think deep down he knew he was being hypocritcal. But can you blame the man? He was raised thinking he was going to be a great teacher one day, so it's only natural that he teach. That's the problem with us humans. We rely too heavily on others when we can just as easily learn from ourselves if we just listen.

 

A guru brings out what is inside of you already. He doesn't really put things in.


x

 

Of course, xexon! That's the Guru's job. The problem with following ourselves is that far too often we end up following the mind rather than the spirit. Most people aren't even aware of the spirit, let alone able to receive guidance from it. Therefore, the external Guru, who is only an outward manifestation of the inner Guru comes along to help you to see the Guru in yourself.
That is what Krishnamurti did also. From all I have read of his work, he was against us becoming dependent on the Guru and relying on the teacher for our spiritual progress. And after all the highest teaching is that you have no self and no other, therefore, who are you receiving guidance from? And who are you saying you should not rely on? They are all one. In HInduism we are repeatedly taught to see our own self, the Guru and God as all one entity.

As Chodpa put it, the universe is the Guru. This is what Hinduism says exactly - vishwam gurur mama (the world is my Guru).

 

Bhaskar, once again you are providing wise advice, but xexon is providing the practical advice that these beginners need -- they are not ready for you yet! Our friend LightPeace needs to get out of quisno's periodically and search out some resources. You are right, a teacher/guru can be standing right in front of you, and if you are not open, you will miss the opportunity. But the awakening, awareness comes in different ways for different people, let's encourage LightPeace to seek out help in whatever way works.

 

I have been interested in meditation for a while, I think I need to do some more reading. And the comments about being more receptive to my surroundings seem like sound advice as well.

 

It may be a hold-over from my Christian up-bringing, but I don't see how, if you can't trust yourself to find the way, you could possibly trust someone else. How could you know if he or she was really guiding you in the right path, or just a con artist making a living while avoiding real work?
I say it's best to learn from everything. Listen to everything you hear, and test it against what's in your heart. If you are mistaken for a while, even your whole life, it's ok. You'll get it eventually. This business of leading and following, though, has got humanity into too many problems that have persisted from the beginning.

 

It is not leading and following it. It is learning from someone who knows. And how do you know that person knows? You will. In you heart you will know. Like i said earlier, the big risk is you might end up following your mind and emotions and just get more lost. A teacher is one who helps you follow your higher self.

MCG, I don't see much difference with what I say and what xexon says. I say your teacher will come when you are ready. Start blossoming and the bee will come to the flower. Finding a group, finding lessons, whatever it is, is a part of that.

 

If you know in your heart that your teacher is showing you the right way, then you are just recognizing that he's telling you something you already know. If you learn yourself, you will know what you know.
If someone shows you the way, and you go that way because he's gone that way already, how is that not leading and following?
I am sure, because I've met some, that there are religious teachers of all faiths who are helpful and faithful. I'm also sure, because I've met many, that there are many frauds and con artists about.
For me, I listen to everyone, get all the facts that I can, and all the good advice I can get...and then I do my own thing. It may limit me, true...But if it doesn't work out, I've got only myself to blame, and no hurt feelings for anyone. If it does work out, those who've witnessed my progress will have learned by observation of another path that they can pass on to their followers.

 

Spoken like a true 21st century thinker. The trouble is, we don't always understand or know everything that we know.
One of the sad things in this age is we have forgotten to trust the universe.
There are, as you say, plenty of scoundrels around. And there are plenty of fools to fall for them.
If you are strong enough in your drive to find the right teacher and grow spiritually, then you will find a true teacher and the one who fits YOU perfectly. You have to trust the universe.
If you live in delusion, and if some part of you enjkoys that, as is the case with a great deal of "spiritual" people, then you'll find someone to fool you well and good.

But put your entire effort into your growth, be brutally honest with yourself and focus your entire effort on growing, and you will find the universe will show you a hundred beautiful teachings. But you have to open yourself to it fully. Those who are only partially receptive get a teacher who is only partially right for them.

 

I agree with all of that last post, Bhaskar.

I do trust the universe. It's people that I've learned to be cautious around.

The universe has been doing a great job of teaching me, so far. It is stern and refuses to accept my self-delusion. The lessons often involve pain, but it's just the pain of letting go of comforting falsehoods. But it is also generous and rewarding of sincere effort. Every year of my life, I have become more joyful and more at ease with the universe, better able to weather storms, more disciplined, more detached and more loving. If I must say I have an embodied teacher, he is Sri Ganesha, who has come to me, protected me, made and kept his promises to me, and cut from me pieces of myself that I no longer needed. He is my beloved, and I don't feel any need to trust anyone else with my instruction.

Recently, he has told me to meet his brother, Lord Murugan or Sri Subramanya. This is new, and a little awkward for me. But I know Lord Murugan will take me in his time and teach me what I must learn from him.

 

So you do have a teacher.
The teacher has to be a human person, though most people do need that. The best way to find a teacher is yours - not waiting for a teacher, become a student. Then the world is your teacher. It is not everyone who is capable of that, which is why the Guru is needed.

 

I had no knowledge at all of Hinduism when I met a man with the head of an elephant in my dreams. He made outlandish promises to me, then, which I seemed to have no choice but to trust. I felt a sense of responsibility to trust in his promises. I know I'm being vague. It's like he promised to catch me and many other people when we jumped, so I felt a responsibility to jump every time I saw someone jumping. He, against all odds, caught every one of us, every time. When I did not jump, out of exhaustion, some people fell and crashed. I know the details may seem enticing, but I'm not going to go into any more detail than that. It was life and death, and that's all I'll say.

I asked a Wiccan about my dream, and he told me I had seen Sri Ganesha. Even then, I was unwilling to change my religion and give up eating meat and getting drunk all the time. But God worked on me, gave me time, and continued to call me to himself until I relented in my resistance.

When I finally came to a temple with some bananas and mangos as a thank-you, and when I finally bowed my head and then lay prostrate before the God who had saved me and so many others, I felt a sense of brotherhood. I felt like my brother had been trying so hard to get in touch with me, and he finally had me come to his house.

When he talks to me, I hear it. I hear words in my mind that aren't my own. I know the difference. He tells me things I don't want to hear. He leads me into places I had no idea even existed. I trust him more every day.

If he ever told me to listen to any man or woman, I would. And I would probably weep.

 

He moves in mysterious ways, his miracles to perform.