Lots of conservative prodetants talk like "I accepted Jesus, and now I am saved and going to heaven". Is talk like this acceptable? Can a person ever KNOW 100% that they are saved?
Apparently one of the Hip Forum regulars known as Samwise does, since he keeps posting a handy, dandy, moneyback guarantee that if we follow a simple formula involving belief in this and that we can be 100% sure of getting to heaven. If he's right, I'm in big trouble, because as a fallible human I'm not 100% sure of anything. I base my Christianity on reason and faith, which I define as intuition+taking a chance. To me, that, by definition, is less than certainty. Even courtroom proof for a criminal conviction is only "beyond a reasonable doubt". Besides, some of the folks who talk like that remind me of Pharisees, and I wonder if Pharisees can be 100% sure that they're saved.
(Matthew 24:13) . . . But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. . . This scripture seems to indicate that one can never know for sure unless one has endured to the end.
this stuff pisses me off. everyone acts like salvation is some sort of drawn out process, almost like applying for a credit card or something to do with paper work. "oh geez, well how do I know if im saved?" How do you "accept Jesus"? do you now follow his teachings? or has your schizophrenic mind created an alter-ego inside your head that you have named Jesus, and b/c of this you get to go to heaven.
If Jesus was tha absolute truth incarnate, why all the mystery? Why is it at the end of the day you still feel as though your gambling with your fate? I'm actually glad this post came up. When i was kid i was given crayola crayons. I loved all the colors except gray. it made me sad and depressed and made me think of rain. Mind you thinking about it now... i feel bad for saying this, rain is important and needed to grow food. HAHAHA. BUT I DIAGRESS.... Now that i'm older and seeking salvation i hate the color gray even more. It's either black or white. Sorry Man, i just don't see how the reedeemer's ultimate plan of salvation involves mysteries, or a guessing game or especially chance. The God I know does not shoot dice. This universe is far too elegant and operates in a orderly circular fashion for events to happen by luck. If we are uncertain of things it's because our leaders have DELIBERATLY led us astray from the universal truth. But alas no worry, the truth is coming back. Thank God.
I think the "ultimate plan" as you call it is infused with mysteries. How is Jesus both Go and Man (fully 100%) at the same time? For some groups, how does he bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ (Catholics say substance, not accidents, which I think is a good attempt, but ulimately it is a mystery)? By saying you know you are saved, wouldn't that be like saying you know what God only knows and therefore are prolaiming to know the knowledge of God? Would this be conidered a sin?
Salvation could be defined as a life altering experience. One that truly changes your inner perceptions. They automatically align towards the godhead. If their religious belief of God is present, their new life will employ those beliefs to build with. Thats why some people are such mouthpieces for dogma. As they continue to grow, the dogma falls away in the face of direct perception. Conflict can arise from leaders of such religions when their own perception begin to outpace the dogma they've sworn their lives to. Can't very well go in front of all your followers and say everything you've taught them is wrong. I would say to a person who has just told me they're saved, that I'm glad they're on their way, but the path is long. You've been given a map, but it is up to you to walk it. The map itself is not a ticket. Just having a map won't get you in. x
saved - when in love and kindly together , that word is hardly even mentioned one to another . you are saved from estrangement and are in harmony with all life and the purpose of life - to move it well and shake it fine and make the god creation universally eternally spinning . you have to care .
salvation. at one time earlier in my life i spent a few years in a *born again* church. every single week the pastor of the church would ask everyone *are you sure your saved?* *are you certain?* literally causing fear and doubt for everyone. then he'd go through a ritual of *close your eyes and ask jesus into your heart, open your heart and receive jesus, ask for salvation* ... then everyone would pray with him and it would go something like *jesus i ask you to come into my heart ...... etc.* after the prayer the service would be over and everyone would walk out feeling *saved*. until next week when it would happen all over again. it seemed like we were stuck in this asking jesus into our heart stage, fueled by fear and doubt of our salvation. i found myself worried sick about it and unable to move on. then i started to think ... jesus died on the cross for all our salvation. to ask for salvation over and over again almost seemed like a mockery of something already given. i realized this church wasn't a good match for me, so i quit that church and prayed the prayer one more time ... just to be certain of salvation (cause i was still afraid) and focused more on a personal relationship with god and read the bible alone, with prayer, for a few years without church interpretation.
A person can only hope that what they are doing what is right. If you do the will of God and practice and exercise the teachings of Jesus Christ and the bible, there is hope for everlasting life.
I just wanted to comment on this if you don't mind. Many people will say that you can interpret the Bible any way you want which is true but what is the proper interpretation? Easy, let the Bible interpret its self. When you read a scripture and you don’t understand it, don’t just say well it must mean this or think, well so and so told me it means this. What one should do is see what the rest of the Bible says about that subject and usually it will become clear what the Bible is really trying to tell you.
yes, wise advise, let the bible interpret itself. easier said than done. much more difficult than learning from someone else's interpretation. it's much easier to be taught. are we all (humans) supposed to interpret the bible exactly the same? i'm guessing no. hence so many different christian religions. the parables of jesus confuse me most. is there a place on this board that discusses these parables in detail?
You are correct that is why there are so many different Christian religions. That is why it is so important to let the Bible interpret its self, easy no, important yes. So in answer to your question: are we all (humans) supposed to interpret the bible exactly the same? There is only one correct interpretation of the Bible and that is the one the Bible makes for its self! So all true Christians should believe the same thing. The Bible does say; “how are we to learn unless someone teaches” but at the same time commends those in Beroe´a for receiving “the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so”, even though they were being taught by the apostles and disciples of Jesus. Therefore while we do need teachers, that does not remove from us the responsibility of carefully examining the Scriptures for ourselves. Making sure that what we are taught isn’t some human interpretation but the interpretation the Bible makes for it’s self.
At this time I don't of any but you could start one if you wish. You might want to start it in the Sanctuary Forum.
