The Haters On Youtube

Hey, I apologise if I attempted to give you the benefit of a doubt, a chance to clarify that you weren't implying what you think you were.

Haha, your "chosen lifestyle" is it now? Last I heard, sexual orientation was neither inherently a lifestyle nor inherently a choice.

That I'm not offended, just mildly annoyed by the "closets are for clothes" stock response that assumes that sexuality, unlike pretty much every other aspect of one's personality, isn't about reaching a compromise with those around us.

I have the right to assert from what I've read. I don't particularly worry about whether "people" (i.e. you) take me seriously. Far as I could tell, you were upset because you thought my post contradicted your assertion that some gays live in poverty. I mean, it doesn't, and I can explain why, but wouldn't it be easier to just figure it out?

Right. What is it that you think you've read?

Not that it matters who "started" it, but you might want to check. Age was relevant to the Sissyphobia thread, since it related to changing attitudes over the last few decades, and I never "used" age to attempt to invalidate your opinion. In this thread, I do not see how age is particularly relevant; if it were, I'd have thought someone who can more vividly remember the poster's experience would have more of relevance to say.

Re your statement: "You're 24 and you still think this way?". In fact, no, I don't still think this way. A few years ago I thought quite differently about this subject, and in the time since, I've changed my mind. Do you not think it is somewhat condescending to assume that I had not thought about it simply because I didn't agree? Would you be making the same assertion about someone your own age? Maybe.

Indeed, and attempting to close down a debate by insisting that one's opponent "needs to have the last word" is a really immature way to carry oneself. The only reason it doesn't apply just as equally to you is because I'm not childish enough to say it (yet!).

It is, however, tiresome to be unable to post in the same thread as you without you dragging up stuff from other threads and trying to have the same argument over and over again. Let it go.

You know those are basically the same thing, right?

I mention common sense because you seem totally opposed to the possibility that gays might earn more on average and spend significantly more on average than straight guys. I can't claim to have the stats in front of me, but then, most forum users don't either. It seemed to me like it was "common sense" for you that gay people would be worse off than straight people. Could that be hard personal experience at work?

 

See, I do think that parents like that are anomalies. We don't realise that when they're raising us, of course. My dad is only recently coming to terms with the fact that his mother was a little bit nuts - he always blamed her religion, I think, rather than accept that, even without a religion, she still would've been overzealous, just not about God. My dad is 61.

My point is though, most of our parents aren't like that, but we only tend to hear about how to deal with the ones that are. Not that I'm saying we should be completely uncritical of our parents, but I think we're encouraged to find things to blame on them, and very often end up ignoring how much they did right.

 

I'm curious as to why this is even a issue.
YouTubers that are homophobic represent a tiny fraction of the populace as a whole.
Since any group is never going to have the full support of any populace, why waste time and energy on a few people that are likely self-isolating w/ their intolerance and bigotry?

 

you are right, but the reason they hate us is just curious.

 

For me it is a lifestyle because I swing both ways, but I chose to lead a strictly gay existance. I can't bear to think of hurting a girl.......... It's inevitable for me to hook up with another guy. I don't have a will of steel and I don't like stopping myself. I've met many married bi guys and none of them are sexually happy at least the ones I've met.

It is relevant to me because we didn't have that closure. The thread was shut down. The fact that you're 24 years old brings back bad memories. When it comes to age topics, I'm on it. Just had a younger/older relationship, gone badly awry. He just turned 24 when we broke up. Talks of sugar daddies bring back memories of our fights because he didn't have the nerve to rise above the dirty looks and nasty talks. When your young and beautiful, the queens can get vicious. Jealousy. Thing is he has more money than me. He came from a wealthy family. The thing too is I am generous to the person I care about. I love to give gifts. I make good money. I love to show off my partner. I've been told that I'm a great lover. I never thought about his age at all except when he makes a point of it during our fights........... To me beauty is a genius in itself. It doesn't need any apologies. If you're beautiful, I don't care how old you are or how much money you have or don't have. It's all irrelevant to me. I will treat that person as number one as long as we're together. Sad to say that younger guys get the butt of the negative vibes. His boyish look and delicate stature didn't help. They didn't lessen the whispers and looks.

I apologize if I made you feel that way. It's really a figure of speech. I made similar assertions to people my age and older.

 

Well quite. I've not arrived at my position through naïvete, believe you me. A few years ago, I'd probably agree with you about a lot of stuff, because I was happy to blame the way my life was on my parents. Now I'm more critical of the advice I received - which, I accept, I didn't have to take, but hey - when I was younger, from those who, I suspect, did not have my best interests at heart.

 

the only people i've told so far are pretty strong mormons. and guess what...they're already accepting me. this is how it went. i told two of my best friends...they are "mormons" and pretty faithful. so i tell them, and at first they are pretty upset and not sure if it's against their religion. they talked to the bishop(seperately)-he told them it'd be best to be my friend, but if i talk about boys or things like that, than to just ask me to stop. and my parents, i think our relationship has only gotten much stronger from me coming out. so "you want so much to be accepted by your Mormon family and friends that you are willing to change for them." is bull.

I'd read the rest of cail and self controls posts and continue with the argument but it's long and i'm too tired xD

 

Well yeah, it's fair enough. 100% openness and whatever else sounds great, but it's not going to happen even if you have the most liberal parents in the world, so working around others as they are no doubt working around you is totally okay far as I can see.

 

yeah but if every1 one comes out it will show that there is no shame in being gay which there should not be,its not a lifestyle choice its just the reality of being a humanbeing.

 

Yeah, I get the theory. But should we feel obliged to come out just for the sake of there being "no shame in being gay"? People are free to make their own choices, it's their lives, after all.

 

Not quite, "common sense" and theories are passive. Personal experience is something else. I agree that they're all relative. Nothing is absolute in our world, but a hard personal experience has a long lasting impact until another forceful fact comes along to replace it. Personal experience is not passive. A person could accept read or hearsay theories as facts, but for me I tend to forget them as quickly as another thought comes along to delete them. Hard earned facts tend to hang on all the way down to my bones, but this is me. I don't speak for you. I don't speak for anyone else.

Cal

 

So far so good. That's great, but I take that you also made plans on how to deal with 'the love of your life'..... if you find one who would put up with you and your religion. The awkward situations that will crop up........, but by the way you sound you have everything under control. To say it again, no skin off my ass........., whatever you need to do with your life, your life is your own. The good thing about a forum like is that you have a place to cry your guts out if things don't work out the way you expect them to. It's cheaper than a therapist.

 

So if something is shown statistically to be true in 90% of cases, the fact that you happen to have had personal experience of the other 10% renders the statistic meaningless, yes? This was my point over the money earning thing; the fact that you have experience of gays living in relative poverty doesn't mean that they don't earn more on average, yet you seemed outraged at the idea based on a common sense angle. There's not that much of an absence of hard facts, any more than there ever was. Just a tendency to use the belief that there is. We know that "you can't trust the media", but can we then use that to selectively ignore any story we read that doesn't fit our worldview?

Lol tangent.

 

My last post was not about material things. I was talking about a more personal emotional or even metaphysical matter in general. My mind glazed over the financial thing........ Back to the money thing. When it comes to financial matters, I rely on concrete statistics stated by people I trust. The study found that gay men who live together earn 23 percent less than married men, and 9 percent less than unmarried heterosexual men who live with a woman........ University of New Hampshire (UNH) Whittemore School of Business and Economics is not media, it's a school. Why do you assume I was outraged? I don't mistrust all media. I choose where I get my material info. Those I can trust. Those that I can benefit from.

 

Well I'd say the very fact that we got such different information would be a little bit suspect. I guess we don't need to earn as much to live the high life

 

Everything is a suspect because everyone is biased with motives. It's one of the first things I've learned from my parents. I give the media the benefit of the doubt, but I do my research on things I'm interested in. It all depends on how you define the high life. I like "rich" people, but I'm not talking about money wealth. Money is important to a certain extent, but it's not everything. Part of my high life is having my dream job. My work right now is not my dream job, but it pays my bills and then some. I worked my ass off to get what I have and I spend my money well. I spend it on me the most. I like beautiful things and I give them away once I'm tired of them. I would like to have more deep, real friends, not sexual friends, but true friends who will be there for me. I'm a low maintainance guy, urbane, great cook, horny looking, annoyingly private but no man stands alone. Friends are very important to me now that I'm 47, but I've met many complicated gays in my life. I hate divas. I don't mind prima donnas because they have the talent to afford it. These haters on youtube are no different from gay divas.

Cal

 

eheh, mormon is not my religion. I was just defending them, since I know some pretty damn good mormon people. After being inactive for months from church and after the "youth bishops conference" to try to get me active failed, I consider myself non mormon. And I plan to move out of Utah asap. anyways, thanks. and yes, forums are my not exactly personal, but free shrink. haha...

 

there are good mormon people. there are good catholic people. there are good methodist people. there are good baptist people. there are good muslims. there are good gays. there are good straights. No group is entirely bad, and that is the sentiment we need to get rid of. Its the exact mindset that these "haters" on youtube have...

 

some people are so ignorant. how can anyone possibly believe that bring gay is a choice? people dont choose who they are attracted to-it just happens. i dont understand people saying gays are going to hell, but yet being gay is hardly a choice, so if they believe God controls then surely God must have made people gay or straight. I am not gay, nor am i not against religion, but this really is sad. come on people, we are all human are we not? time to start loving and accepting eachother and stop the madness

 

I have said my piece. Most people should have guessed I am not a gay. Nor will I ever convert to being a gay. Although I cannot agree that it is morally right. I do respect people, irrespective of wether they are a gay. Infact, yes, the Bible says we should tolerate each others. And we cannot judge others without first taking the spec out of our eyes. Those on youtube who hate a gays,should be ignored. Don't rise to the bait, don't rise up to the fools of youtube. They simply exploit technology to make others feel bad.