demonstration Against Marks and Spencer - 26th August - London

Jonny you might be unaware of this but there is a mass of people in Israel who feel this way too.

 

doc the thread is biased towards one side in a conflict

"its just about solidarity with palestinians and news about atrocities that are taking place against them and support for their own just struggle and state and freedoms"

it doesnt talk about the isrealis being killed and atrocities being commited against them, or their just right to a state....wheres anything about the isrealis freedoms from not being killed .

 

Yes. So what? When we talk about one set of wrongs in the world, are we obliged to talk about all wrongs? When you talk about the atrocities of Islam, you you also mention the atrocities of Israel?

 

just pointing out more fully that you have chosen sides

 

No at all. You're just demonstrating your ignorance even further. Not all of are interested in something as childish as 'choosing sides'. The last time I 'chose sides' was football teams at school.

For your elucidation, let me explain: if you see two people in a fight and drag one person off, it doesn't mean you've chosen sides or support the other person.

 

What an ironic statement....

 

If you see two people in a fight and you support the cause of one side their right to a state.

Publish details of supposed atrocities committed against them, and don’t do the same where there are as clear or clearer atrocities being committed against the other side.

State that your campaign itself is in solidarity with one side i.e. the Palestinians.

And then try to get people to boycott companys doing business with one side.

This seems a pretty watertight case that you have chosen sides.



Hezbollah for example are funded to a large extent by Iran we do a lot of business with Iran, in fact we have a massive trade surplus. Hezbollah are the people who started up the idea of suicide bombing .

I don’t see the left supporting campaigns trying to get Iran to stop funding suicide bombing, by boycotting the people who do business with Iran the people who finance them

 

Im not saying that Im not more inclined to support one side than the other.


what got me was being told that if I wasnt anti isreal I had no conscience,
when if you look at the detail of what the other side want its not very progressive.

 

This is your infantile logic at work again. I don't support one side. I support the Palestinian's right to live unmolested by Israel in the same way that I support the Israeli's right not to be subjected to suicide bombings.

Loo, this logic is retarded. Do you think there's a single person in the Western world who isn't aware of Palestinian suicide bombings? Are you suggesting that we should have to add that as a footnote to every comment we ever make regarding the abuses perpetrated by the Israeli state? That's like saying you can never say that the BNP are a bad thing without also mentioning the problems caused by immigration. Drawing people's attention to one side's abuses does not equate to supporting the other side's abuses.

Well not really, coz I don't have a campaign. Do you? Have you chosen sides? Not everyone sees the issues in the same black and white terms as you do, and it's inuslting that you should presume that we do.

 

Who said if you weren't anti Israel you had no conscience?

Your putting words into my mouth coz your arguments suck eggs...

The crap argument that if you dont support a particular train of Israeli thought (of which there are many just like here) you are therefore anti-semetic and against the whole existance of Israel. It's a pathetic tactic used as a weapon to stifle democratic debate.

 

Israel does have oil reserves, and has the largest amount of nuclear artilary of any middle eastern country, on which there have been no surprise UN inspections, and only one where the inspectors were allowed to check designated areas chosen by the israeli govt. Mordachai Vanunu wasnt locked up for nothing...
no oppinion just resurfaced fact
nice to have a debate where ppl can coherantly put forward both sides to an arguament

 

You and claire said that indirectly to me. Because I wont support your cause to destroy Israel in favor of Palestine. You see by doing that protest you advocate little by little you are trying to destroy Israel and her right to life. You would rather see Israel poor and hungry so that Palestinians can exterminate the pigs and infidels!

 

Sheer unbridled ignorance. Who said the cause is to destroy Israel? The cause is to protest Israel's well-documented human rights abuses against the backdrop of Israeli transgression and defiance of international law.

 

I never said you didn't have a conscience... please read my actual words.

 

So a hidden agenda to destroy Israel is ok according to you? By protesting Israel you are saying that it is ok to suicide bomb Israel..Or are you protesting Palestine for that as well?

 

I read them loud and clear and you said to each his own which was all fine and dandy. However your implications were quite clear. If it isnt your way it is the wrong way.

 

What the fuck? Are you on crack? How does criticising Israel equate with a support for suicide bombing?

 

It goes far deeper than just a mere critisizing. I mean protesting is the activity of doing harm to a person in this case finacially. So you are hurting one groups livelyhood so that suicide bombers can go free....I mean I dont see anyone on this board doing a protest against any Palestinians. And the Palestinian people elected a terrorist as their leader. A leader that says nice things to your face but behind your back tells, no instructs, all Palestinians to sacrifice their children for infantada!


But I guess to all the bleeding hearts on this board strapping bombs to the chest of your child or using your child as a human shield to get Israelis to NOT shot at you just so you can ambush them is a good thing. Waaay to go people!

 

Uhuh. Yup. That's a valid form of protest. However, I'm not sure how deduce that this means:

Who mentioned anything about suicide bombers?

Well it'd be pretty hard to damage the Palestinians economically, wouldn't it? They're kinda screwed already. Added to which, there's plenty of public awareness focused on the atrocities carried out by Islamic suicide bombers, but far less awareness of the atrocities carried out by the Israeli state.

Here's an idea. How about you run a poll and see how many of us support suicide bombings?

That's right. Every single Palastinian voted for Arafat. Therefore they're all evil. Do we hold it against every American that you were stupid enough to elect Bush?

Ah, the standard whine of the right wing neo-fascist. If you disagree with the right wing agenda, you're a 'bleeding heart'. That's childishly insulting, but fairly typical.

See, this is why people have very little respect for this type of view. You're entirely irrational. You take unrelated facts and use your own biased opinions to create a connection that isn't there, just because it suits your prejudiced agenda.

Let's be clear. Nobody here supports the activities of Islamic terrorists. Period. The fact that you insist on assuming we do shows how ignorant you are, and demonstrates that you either have no understanding of our position, or else you're so arrogant that you purposefully choose to ignore the facts, because you'd rather demonise us.

It's perfectly legitimate to oppose the behaviour of the Israeli state without supporting suicide bombers.

Look, say America decided to nuke Iraq and Afghanistan. Say people chose to demonstrate against that. Would you assume that everyone opposed to American use of nuclear weapons was pro-terrorism? Or would you consider it reasonable for people to question the use of nuclear weapons and protest against that use?

Or closer to home, if you saw a couple of cops kicking the shit outta some black dude, would you think "hmmm, can't object to that, coz I might be supporting criminality"?

In the same way, it's possible for us to oppose the behaviour of the Israeli state without supporting terrorism.

 

I personally support Palestine in the whole West Bank issue, but only because I hate the Jews. To be honest, there's such a weight of faults on both sides that it's too close to call, and so I can't really criticise someone for siding with Israel really, it's all much of a muchness. That said, it would've been nice if everyone could've just kept their noses out of the whole debacle and let them all kill each other.