why i am agnostic...

I think that there is no solid proof that either there is a god or that there isnt any god.
if there is a god, there is soo much different possibilities of different gods.
it would be impossible to find out actually which god is real.
and how can there be more than one religion?
do christians just think all hundreds of thousands of muslims are all lying when they say they have experienced god?
and same the other way.
all the christians who say they have experienced god.
do muslims think all of them could be just lying?
none of it makes sense.
religion is far too complex for humans to understand fully.

 

There is one explanation that makes perfect sense. When you examine God as being nothing more than an inner voice mental representation of the subconscious mind within a religious person, everything makes perfect sense!

God is greedy, God is hateful, God is jealous, God is a war monger, God is a relentless egomaniac! God is subconscious MAN!!! Born from imagination and fantasy, bred in subsonscious grey matter.

That is why I am atheist. It IS the only option that makes sense!!!

And it is the only option the truly promises peace and freedom on earth.

 

I see what you mean. But then its not really a god. its your soul sorta.
i dont know if i believe we have souls but it sounds like what your describing as god.

 

Yes, my point is that there is no God. The soul is an illusion created within a chemical consciousness. It is what man has created to explain a condition that he can not yet understand or come to terms with.

 

I f we hypothecize that some sort o God actually exist, and that we believe, do we really need to decid which one religion has ultimate truth or just the eligion that seems most logcal for the individual.

Religion is not ordained by God, religion is sacrementalized by men from the rest of the profane world...

 

Yep i do agree with you there.
Nice explanation.

 

I believe (the religious version of) 'God' is the product of humanity.Humanity being the height of evolution right now (which is why we reside in human bodies) All that is in 'Reality' comes from human perception. The bible, for instance, was written with words, words are a human creation. If humans did not exist, God could not, because God is a concept that only humans have. Other animals do not worship a God, or practise a religion. There would be no way for God to manifest himself if humans were not present, thus he would cease to be.

So in that reguard, the religious God is dependent upon humans to spread his presence, not the other way around,as most religious people may have it.

I believe that God can be used to describe the consciousness/awareness that resides inside the human body, that being us. We are the awareness inside the head of the body, not the body or the personality, both of which are created by human reproduction and upbringing. We are consciousness, and from us all of 'reality' is created, thus , we would be what religious people constitute as God;


I am not John Doe, John Doe is the name given to the body which I reside in at birth. I am not the personality and Identity that John Doe has assumed. I am the consciousness that resides inside the head of the body,I am the awareness of existing, for I am existence itself. Now that John Doe has become aware of this , he has stripped away his identity, and has become one with the stream of consciousness that we all are, he has become a part of super consciousness himself. Fear, constraints and even death itself no longer exist, because they are simply illusions.

 

im agnostic because on day in church i just listened to the gospel, first time i think ever, and i thought "wow, this is just stupid," then i started thinking that what makes catholicism right. i could have wasted 14 years following the wrong god. is there even a god, cuz hindu is just fucked up. and all the pro relgion jerk offs there are say religon is one of the only things that has been around for millions of years, yea but they all have ben different, if something was right then it would be the same for everyone, there wouldnt be hindus, budhist, jews, muslims, catholics or anyone else. it would just be a religion because it was right. and if im right, then what about all the other religions. Now i am NOT athiest, in fact i hate most athiest( i also hate most christians and muslims, im cool with jews cuz they dont try to convert) because they just go around saying that they right and you are rong and i think that is incrediblly arrogant and they are assholes that jjust try to force there belifes n others. I never preach to anybondy, but if someone comes at me ill defend myself, i hate evangelist and anyone who thinks they are right and im wrong just for my beliefs. as for you assholes that just come up and say this is why god exist without any real proof, fuck you and let me live my life the way i want. if im wrong and your right it doesnt mean you wont get into heaven so just fuck off, and if im ight and your wrong there is nothing gained too.

 

ok asshole, before you come out as an gnostic, have some basis of religion, Islam and Christianity have the same god, as well as jews, budhist dont have a god a dn hindus have fucking alot of gods. so really there isnt that mny different Gods, there are just alot of gods(lower case is the generic term, upper is the "dude")

 

In recent years, I have actually seen in my own head how Plato came up with his philosophy on forms. It's a very deep thought, and requires deeper inspection.

If God is just a concept, and concepts aren't real, then what about the concepts derived from scientific pursuits? See, you either have to respect all concepts as having some value to it, some truth to it, or just become a nihilist, and ignore all gatherd knowledge and wisdom throughout the centuries. But I don't think you can do that, honestly, you would be choosing to ignore truth. Although not perfect and clear truth in its purest form, but still a truth.

The way I see it, you can't arrive to any concept unless there is truth to it. Could you say that if you imagined a unicorn, that it must somehow exist? Yes, I am saying that. We may have no proof of such a thing existing, but there is no reason that reality would prevent something like that from coming into being. There are no laws of reality that could prevent that, either in this universe or another.

Can you say goodness indeed exists? If you think on this, then you will know the nature of God. You cannot touch goodness, examine it under a microscope, but goodness may be understood, or interpreted in many different ways. Thus, Plato's reasoning for there being only LESSER goods. If hell is the complete distance of good, then it is the complete distance of God, because the word God derived from Plato's word good.

Good is what the atheist seeks in his belief in non-belief. Good is what the philosopher seeks when he goes on truth-searching. Good is what a priest seeks when he acts out goodness. Good is what you seek by being an agnostic. Good is what we all seek, one way or another. Good may be subjective, but only subjective in that the same thing may be interpreted different, but it still points to the same exact thing. This is what all religions are pointing to. So the whole, "well all religions are different" argument is meatless. A closer inspection would reveal that they all worship the same thing, they just have their own interpretation of such.

God and good is inevitably the same thing. Evil may be a part of God, but NOT directly (Everything and everything is a part of one whole, no denying that), all IS God, and all is IN God, but that is my interpretation of the same thing. It is just the other spectrum of God, to most likely allow a form of free will to exist, which I would call pan-determinism. But God in his purest form exhibits the PERFECT form of good and IS what goodness in that highest form is. This shouldn't be confused with non-being, and non-existence as well.

Animals may not know of God as a thing, but I would say that they LIVE in God's presence, very closely. Someone I know once once said, "God does not need preachers". In order to truly know of God, you need not form an argument and be convinced by that, although it can be helpful to do so. God exists through altruistic action, and when you live for others, then that is the only time when God may be known. Animals live this altruistic action in their own way, they are neutral beings taking care of themselves and their kin by enacting goodness through instincts, through their very being. For instance, a male spider allowing himself to be eaten by the female spider so that his nutrients may spell out survival and prosperity for his young. If goodness didn't exist in the universe, the universe just wouldn't exist. Animals know of God, just not in the way that we believe to be a superior form of knowing. Like it was said earlier, their lives, and actions themselves knows of God.



-----------


If God is outside this reality, then he can't be anything that we can give a characteristic to, because he is not a thing. You can definitely try, but arguments are themselves THINGS, and you can't disprove a non-thing through the use of a thing - This is what is meant by idolatry (Don't worship the thing, worship the meaning behind it) - This 'no-thing-ness' should not be confused with non-existence and non-being, either. God would just be whatever it is, and it doesn't have to fit our descriptions of 'Him'. The whole point is that he is beyond description in the first place - ironically, that is a characteristic. All arguments against God are just straw-man arguments.

All religions and philosophies that try to negate thing-ness of God, would make more sense, and find more truth, than any objective (OBJECT) argument can. This is, in fact, what many philosophies and religions have already done and continue to do. That is, if you can slosh through all the dogma to try to find its core. Insofar as you cannot know of existence of such a being because there is no powerful argument, and if argument is the only way to know of such. Searching for the core is the basis of truth and this also includes intuition - To have a good idea, but to know that the idea will eventually be replaced with a better one.

Trying to disprove God by using anything of this reality would be merit-less. And obviously, you are going to hit a brick wall. This is why symbolism is so important, because symbolism expresses what is through symbols, but symbols themselves isn't the thing itself (Anthropomorphic depictions of God). We are intimately a part of this reality.

This is the limit of logic and argument. And this isn't to say that both logic and argument are invalid. They both definitely are valid. But where they would fit and where they would not fit, is whole other argument. Right at this very moment I am using an argument.

Knowledge is very misguiding. And through argument, that can be known, but there are many venues to finding truth as well.

 

Good is just a symbol for something higher. Our minds can't really completely wrap its heads around the perfect form of good. This is where spirituality and faith comes in.

 

LOL, A big long load and then a little turd!!

I can't believe I read that shit!!! Dude, you just crapped all over this thread!!

 

Why would you reply like that?

 

Very interesting point of veiw, def_zeppelin. I enjoyed reading what you had to say.

 

I absolutely agree with the first post. it is so confusing to me how millions of people follow each religion but then each religion rules the other out. Yet if there was no truth here then why are so many people following this stuff? I guess i have been lucky to find there is another take on god, that being that god in inside us all, if we could only understand.
If you are prepared to look beyond the limitations of the beliefs you have created then why not begin a new journey? and yes religion (or god) may be too complex for the mind to comprehend or understand in its limitedness. but if you focus your thoughts to knowing and bend your reality around this, things will begin to change and you will know. You wont necessarily suddenly "wake up" but you will have moments where you know, not in the sense of the mind but in the sense of all that is, and it will be such bliss, such understanding. then you will realise there IS more and that some things are just beyond and scientific or religious explaination. For example, can you imagine being given a description of happiness having never experienced it yourself? you could not begin to imagine it. similar thing- but more so. beyond anything our thoughts could begin to imagine. (sorry if this makes no sense-im tired)

Oh and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. if people weren't to post then this thread wouldn't even be here so think before you insult people simply for posting. or would you perfer to live in a world full of people identical to youself?
Thanks for taking the time to write up that interesting post def zeppelin. thanks for yours also, relaxxx

 

its mostly christianity and islam, because both are so dominant, that you get so many people calling themselves one or the other saying everything else is bad and distructive and harmful and all that, who really don't know their own beliefs, what their claiming to be their own beliefs.

really most beliefs don't have anything like that problem at all, condeming everything else. and even in those major ones, the people who really understand what they were trying to say and the spirit of what they were trying to say, who tend to be relatively few among the fallowers of any belief, the few who actually study it, to read between the dogmas and find the true spirit of it, even they don't have this fanatic thing.

i think people who want an excuse use religeon as one, and that's what fanaticism is and does. oh there's a few buddhists who are fanatics too, or so from what i understand, but not nearly the proportion like 'christians' and 'islamist'.

but as for other beliefs, from what i've studied of them, you don't get any of that, not like the way with the big two.

i mean yes, there is some exculsionary language in the social principals of several other beliefs. but that's not any of it what the spiritual principals of any of them is about.

if you want to understand what every revealer of belief, what every channeller of whatever it is that was the same moving cause that chose them to be channelled by, the same 'god' as it were, or great spirit or collective conscousness, then strike out every word written and listen to your own heart. to what you don't have to pretend to know to feel and experince.

we don't need the pretentions of the words of fanatics, not even really those of the sacred texts, only that there is a pure spirit we all share, that has nothing to do with what anyone calls it or thinks they know about it. and it doesn't have to resemble what any belief says it does.

it just gives great hugs and leaves it up to us not to mess everything up. when people use what other people have said, or they think they know, as an excuse devide people and set them against each other, then they are missing the whole point of belief, and truly WOULD be better off without it. and i'm not just saying that. the gate said knowledge is a single point the foolish have multiplied. even christ said i dine with publicans and sinners. and lao tsu said in so many words, what you think you know ain't what is.

there is no legitimate excuse for fanatacism in any belief. people just read them that way because on some level they go into it looking for one.

i would add this too, the real true believers of any faith love athiests and agnostics far more then they love the fanatics who claim themselves to be of their same own belief. i think its a matter of being real. of not trying to past their own names on a universe of the spirit none of us know anything about.

=^^=
.../\...

 

thanks for that. i agree with you there too. that we cudnt even begin to imagine what is out there and life after death etc.

 

you dont even have a clue what im on about anyway.
what i sed was that if there WAS a god then there would be too much possibilities of different types of gods for us to worship the right one.
maybe theres a god that weve never heard of before.
its just as stupid as to why theres more than one religion on earth.

 

Or you can use COMMON Sense, logic, reasoning and scientific method to DECIDE what concepts work and which ones are BULL SHIT !!!

Or it could be something called IMAGINATION!!

By your logic it is possible that the 9-11 terrorists are having an orgy right now with 40 whores in heaven!!

But it's all GOOD and that's why their KILLING each other and causing great suffering for this one wonderful GOODNESS!!

Earlier in your post you were saying God is the farthest from evil and no it's all one...

One big pile of rambling crap!!!

Truth, lies, fantasy, rape, torture, starvation, Sponge Bob Square pants....
It's All just GOD!!! OR GOOD !!

It's all Good

Why didn't you just save some typing and pinch that turd off in the first place!?

 

Man, you really do need to relax. I am not the only one to have pointed this out.

It's pretty obvious that you have issues with this. No amount of argument is going to convince you otherwise because you are highly emotional. Someone who was sound in their belief system wouldn't argue as you have. You are having a highly charged reaction similar to what a Christian exhibits when you tell them that Christ wasn't a real person.

Look, I'm not trying to get into your head, but you really need to think on those questions on your own and do it calmly, otherwise you won't come to certain understandings. Maybe doing this will further your beliefs in non-belief, but at least you'll be comfortable enough in your beliefs as to not call everyone that doesn't agree with you a moron.

Look around, everyone has varying opinions, but they state them earnestly with very little emotion attached to it.

You are obviously very passionate about this, and that's good. But there is a fine line between passion and obsession, relax.

"When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you". You have to realize the correlation between your reactions and the reactions of religious nuts. Don't become what you hate.