hi all, SWIM ingested 4-aco-dmt (fumerate) and obtained a terrifying trip, with bad body load. Approx 30mins in, floaty feeling increased in intensity to extreme waves of discomfort which felt a bit like a rollercoaster free-fall feeling, and lasted throughout experience. The body load was especially felt in the arms, and SWIM seriously thought it was a heart attack/seizure. This brought on a panic reaction which lasted the entire trip. Was SWIM unlucky enough to suffer one of the first adverse reactions to this compound, which has a reputation for negligible body load? Or, whilst the chemical was obtained from a reliable vendor, could they possibly have made a mistake and could this have been a different tryptamine? Apparently chem was active at roughly expected dosage, and was of expected beige/white colour and fine consistency. Here is a report of some key features of the trip, please advise ASAP as I would like to know what happened to SWIM. First signs 20 mins, turned unpleasant at 30. Increase in intensity, with moderate visuals, leading to peak at around 1.30 hrs, decreasing in effects from 2 -> 5 hrs, with after feelings of weakness and discomfort. For the majority of trip, SWIM was lying down on bed, on front, bracing SWIMself against intense adrenaline-like rushing feelings. SWIMs arms were trembling slightly throughout. Trip came on and off in waves every few mins. At times SWIM could get up and get drink etc. whereas for most of time, SWIM was feeling too weak to even stand. SWIMs mental state was one of deep terror, although this fear only started after SWIM believed SWIM was experiencing some kind of heart attack, so was actually quite rational - at approx 4hrs, SWIM was able to calm down as SWIM had was now over the peak, and would probably survive. Mind was seriously confused, trying to rationally decide whether to call for help, etc, and decide to what extent symptoms were real. Visuals included waves and ripples, pictures animating, patterns crawling, some closed eye patterns, moving, shrinking and twisting objects, textures patterning, and flashing rainbow like lights and sensations. Time was confused, yet not too dilated etc. No nausea felt. Of course this was written in a rush, so if you need more details on this experience, I will try to contact SWIM. Thanks so much for your help guys, Sinking
I wish I could help you. At these ultra low doses it doesn't make sense that the effects that you were feeling were physical even though at the time it seemed so. It sounds like the fear kicked in and your negative effects took on a snowball effect manifesting in your body. of course, not knowing exactly what you had (common problem with illicit compounds) and dose makes all of this guesswork. Sorry man and I hope this doesn't scare you away from the true benefits of responsible use of entheogenic compounds.
How long was the experience overall? That sounds like quite a sinister experience you had, usually 4-aco is more forgiving than that, was this the first time ingested? Did it still have a "tryptamine" action, more or less?
0. Have you ever take mushrooms before? How about strong doses of LSD or psychedelic research chemicals? 1. What was the exact dosage amount? 2. How exactly did you measure it? 3. Are you on any meds of any kind? 4. Did you have any other drugs whatsoever in your system at the time? 5. Are you sure you did not accidentally order 4-aco-DIPT? The 4-aco-DMT is almost always rather sedating, and doing to much can in fact tend to just knock you out, or sort of result in you being pulled into an amnesiatic coma-like state for a few hours with ZERO visuals or memories at all. HOWEVER, overdoses of 4-aco-DIPT can result in elevated heart rate, tremors, overstimulation, etc. 6. Yes, it is also very very possible that it was really 4-aco-dmt, but that you were experiencing an anxiety attack. People who have had anxiety attacks with NO drugs at all can find the self-reinforcing anxiery can manifest into very real physical symptoms like you describe, reinforced by unrealized newfound powers to control autonomic bodily processes that DMT gives you. The "lying down on bed, on front, bracing your self against intense adrenaline-like rushing feelings" was probably the worst thing you could do... this just INCREASED your feelings of panic, and in a real physical way this sort of self-squeezing reaction physically elevates blood pressure and heart rate. 7. This sounds precisely similar to very typical fear-based dysphoria that is experienced by people doing a larger dose of plain old mushrooms than they had bargained for. In this sort of situation, you must NOT clench up as you did, rather you must be sure to R-E-L-A-X; get plenty of oxygen, sitting UP with your spine straight taking long deep relaxing breaths is best; lying down prone is a bad idea; the idea is to USE YOUR MIND TO CONTROL THE PHYSICAL RUNNAWAY REACTION of your body physicalizing the mental feelings of irrational fear due to unfamiliar perceptual alterations; the drug actually GIVES YOU THE POWER to mentally control your normally sbuconsciously-controlled physical processes. Most people do not realize this. Hence every little sensation of mental unfamiliarity GIVES RISE TO fear and panic WHCIH GIVES RISE TO newly gained power of physical control over usually unconsious body processes unintentionally translating the fear into physical reactions. It is like some kid in an old Sci Fi movie who has telekenesis (power to move objects at will) but has not yet learned to control it and does not even realize he has it. You did not realize you would gain that level of power and control over yor usually autonomic physical processes, and hence they flew into an ever rising self-amplifying feedback loop... untill the drug physically began to wear off. Sit up straight. breath deep slow and regular. any thoughts of death and fear and panic, LET GO OF THEM... cause them to dissolve and dissapate like so much steam or clouds that are cooling off and vanishing... allow your mind to STOP THINKING SUCH THOUGHTS completely. Imagine the pure clean clear light of the Sun shining through the entire Earth and your body and canceling out every thought and idea... TURN OFF YOUR MIND, RELAX AND FLOAT DOWNSTREAM... IT IS NOT DYING... IT IS NOT DYING.
Hi again, thanks so much for all the advice, this has really been helpful, 0. SWIM has some experience with psychedelics, but is not really an expert. However, SWIM is fairly comfortable with bizarre mental effects, e.g. enjoys salvia. 1. SWIM would estimate 15-20mg, although there is considerable error here. 2. Unfortunately SWIM eyeballed dose 3. SWIM was not on any meds. SWIM had not eaten much before trip, and SWIM ate dose on an empty stomach, followed by a small amount of food. 4. SWIM was clean of any other drugs, for at least 2 weeks. 5. SWIM wonders - SWIM trusts vendor, and given that many features of trip were as expected, thinks this was either 4-aco-dmt or a similar analogue. SWIM intends to research the issue, so if anyone can name any other candidates, this will be very helpful. I will keep you posted on what SWIM finds out. Also, are there any tests SWIM can make on the compound to try and confirm whether it really is 4-aco-dmt? Also taste was slightly bitter although very weak, so this should also rule out some compounds. 6. SWIM has certainly heard of such panic attacks, but really wonders. A distinct feature of the trip was that it turned bad almost instantaneously. SWIM was quite enjoying the come up until then, listening to some music, and went to get a drink, when all of a sudden SWIM felt the intense unpleasant rush, which felt as SWIM might imagine a heart attack would. At this time psychedelic effects were limited, so there was no bad thought etc. that triggered the feeling. Of course this worried SWIM a lot, but SWIM was really quite rational in SWIMs fear/panic, making logical decisions. Whilst SWIM was obviously very scared, SWIM was still in control. Whilst SWIM felt death was quite possible, SWIM was still able to focus on important tasks such as determining how bad condition really was, and deciding what to do. In between waves, SWIM was even able to do things such as prepare and drink some water. Also, even after peak was over, and SWIM now expected to make a full recovery, physical effects continued in waves, decreasing in intensity, over a few hours. This suggests to SWIM that this was not a panic reaction as the physical effects continued even when SWIM expected to be ok, and seemed more linked to levels of chemical in SWIMs body than SWIMs mental status. However it is of course possible that the drug triggered a panic attack and that this immediately caused the physical feelings. Also perhaps the physical sensations were caused at a mental level, and perhaps SWIM was not really in any physical danger, just feeling physical hallucinations brought on by the drug? I will do some more research and report back as soon as any info is found. Any further thoughts or opinions are greatly appreciated. Thanks again for your help.
good answer kilgore... also sinking, you havent mentioned method of ingestion or amount ingested. If asking advice like this, that is kinda crucial info... oops just read about ur eyeballing method, please buy some scales for future dosing of RCs. yese it is quite possible your mental state triggered your pysical symptoms.. heart attack is pain in the chest, not intense unpleasent rush. It sounds like you thought the worst for your body and things went downhill from there. Also before you had your eyeballed ingested dose, did you consume a tiny amount (1-2mg) to test for adverse reaction? (days before) If not this is a good thing to do in future (obviously not always 1-2mg, but more a substancially smaller amount than needed threshold) when taking a new chem. Hope things are alright for you now, please be more cautious in future (scales!?) Finally to have managed a "bad trip" should help prepare you for any future comings, listen to your body sure, but also remember reason... peace
Thanks for the reply vcdman, SWIM reports that, -method of ingestion was oral. Although dose taken was probably not cause of problems, SWIM will still invest in a mg scale. -Over previous weeks, SWIM had tested doses of approx 0.1mg, 1mg, 3-4mg, using liquid measurement, none of which produced any adverse effects, perhaps a slight floaty feeling. -You are right, SWIM has learned a huge amount from this experience.
