wa alaikom assalaam Yeah, you're much more likely to get a random hail of insults than any intelligent, or sometimes even any intelligible, response. But welcome to the forums, anyway! hehehe Enjoy your stay.
What insults? Didn’t Sufi rape children in beslan? Didn’t Mohammed rape Aisha a six year old, in Islamic scripture having sex with a young child isn’t rape for as Mohammed The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)." I suppose her parents consented for her You see your view would be that’s legal Id consider Mohammed a child rapist as Id say a 6 year old was to young to be able to give her consent and her parents would be wrong to consent for her In beslan when they raped the children they considered them prizes of jihad or right hand possessions the people doing this wouldn’t consider this child rape they would consider it legal If I called Mohammed a evil cannibal that would be a insult because there is no evidence that he was , if I said he had a beard that would be a statement of fact , And that’s just the same as everything I say about him things you can see if you read Islamic scripture http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/tm_ob...nifed-babies--they-raped-girls-name_page.html http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/05/sufi_jihad.html pictures of beslan http://lordoftheflies.org/img/beslan01.htm http://www.guardian.co.uk/gall/0,,1296787,00.html
for what ? the title of this thread is the way of the sufi , well Ive given a number of examples in history where the way of the sufi is violent , that may annoy you but its part of history thats still playing out today with sufi jihadis . how am I off topic ? best wishes
jonny..you are too much that ý can stand... what scripts you talk about?!!! i am sure you always search and find the scripts which provide proof to you for your nasty blames. !!!! stay away, for u are being not only nonsense but somehow a beast by telling such ridiculous lies!!! if u really had the idea of searching the truth about islam, u would certainly find ... but u are not in need of the good and pure thing ... u seek some sort of rumours that will be proof for you to support ur deep hatred in your heart against the truth and the muslims... i see no point in your phrases. who told u sufis raped children in beslan. ?!!! what proof have u got. ? if there really is a raping case( ý can never believe it) , either the accused one is not a sufi but a liar beast, or he is an enemy of islam doing it to provoke ppl against muslims!!!. you dont know anything about the rules of islam, which puts strict rules in order to protect the rights of everyone, even the rights of animals, which provides love and care in hearts. as to the case of the marriage of aisha, how dare u say it is a raping, you mad creature!!!!!!firstly, there are sources which proves that aisha was a young girl of 17 when she married our prophet...our prophet married her at the tenth year of the anniversary of the holy koran. and aisha was born about 6 years before the beginning of koran verses. so she must be about 17 during the marriage...also the sources say that she was engaged to Cübeyr before engaging our prophet. this also proves that she was not a child but a mature adult.!(see:"asr-ý saadet" by mewlana þibli, 2/997, last published in istanbul in 1928) also the býography of aisha's elder sister is an other proof. The ancient biography books say this:her elder sister Esma was 10 years older...she died at the 73rd year of hicret at the age of100.so she must be 27 during hicret. then, Aisha was 17.ýt is well known that she was married that year.(see: the life of the last prophet by Ali Himmet Berki, Osman Keskioðlu, p.210) so, if u have a brain you can see that these statements are much more reliable and logical than any others. but off course u will insist on the other sources because you have no good perception!!!! even if she were six when married, how do u contradict that she was brought up to adult age by my prophet and then they had sexual intercourse... may be they never had any sexual intercourse because she did not have any child... how do u know about these things.. u are just a brainwashed, ridiculous and hatefull dude, in use of satan and nothing else... and u deserve any kind of bad treatment for your bad manners. I am afraid that u may also be calling the holy prophet jesus "son of some unknown person" and her pure mother mary - hasha!!!- "prostitude"..hasha, thousands of times hasha!!!! in the afterworld, be sure that not millions of muslims but the whole universe will ask you why you did so..and i pity u because your death will not be in peace...may Allah save the whole universe from the kaafeers like you....!!!!
The sahih haddith say 6 not 17 they talk of a little girl playing with dolls and on a swing ,those haddiths are based on aishas own statements as one of the traditional excuses for why mohammed married a 6 year old so she could remember so much of what happened . he died when she was 18 and she lived the rest of her life alone as he had made it a rule that his wives could not remarry . your case that she was 17 is much weaker , which is more likely to be true clear statements from the person themselves in several books of sahih haddith , or one date or books that are not authentic haddith . Sahih Bukhari Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234 Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151 Sahih Muslim . 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him. Book 8, Number 3309. 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old. Book 8, Number 3310 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. Book 8, Number 3311 Sunan Dawud Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. Book 41, Number 4915: Narrated AbuUsamah: The tradition mentioned above (No. 4915) has also been transmitted by AbuUsamah in a similar manner through a different chain of narrators. This version has: "With good fortune. " She (Umm Ruman) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and redressed me. No one came to me suddenly except the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) in the forenoon. So they entrusted me to him. Book 41, Number 4916: Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine. Book 41, Number 4917 I provided links to the rape of children at beslan and photographs taken during the attack and the history of sufi violence, the age of aisha is slightly off topic and I only brought it up in the thread because I felt that partly explained the actions of the men in beslan . if you want you can start a thread on the age of aisha but I think its quite clear she was 6 as she said she was . really we should get back on the topic of sufi in this thread best wishes
u contradict urself!!! u believe in the hadith when it comes to aisha, there are numerous hadithes narrated by the same persons about the virtues of islam and my prophet, then why dont u accept those hadithes also. if u believe the text above, then u have to concider all the other knowledge about islam.u take parts which are likely to be misunderstood or misused. buhari has thousands of hadith about islam, you dont even read them, but u choose the ones which ppl may argue on or which will create questions on the mind. what else, u havent got questions, you are merely an enemy!!!i wont even take u serious any more...!!! as to the beslan children, man, be assured that they are fake sufis if they did so!!!!! I advice you to read some reliable books about the sufi path. ýt seems to me that u have no idea about us at all!!!read rumi, read yunus emre, if u are really interested in this subject,there are numerous books about the sufis.ýts a lighfull way far from any disgusting accusations of disrespectful and dishonest ppl following the path of their egos or the evil... thats all ý can do about you... and what will happen when u die?...u will decay and dissappear! hah! thank god i am not in your boots... what an awfull soul and awfull end...anyway... rumi has a saying:"what has the sun got to do with the blind!!!" yeah. if u are blind, i cant show u anything, and it seems so... and not best wishes...someone like you cant have good wishes... u are being funny at all...
i know the topic here is not the marriage of the prophet but as there has been a great unjust accusation, i see the necessity to paste the text here... even if u accept that aisha was married at an age of 9, this does never give u any evidence that there is a child abuse. hasha, thousands of times hasha!... here is a scientific text for u but ý am sure you will not change your idea because you want to misunderstand everything about islam!!!.. Why Did Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Married Young Aisha Siddiqa (r.a.)? Through the centuries, orientalists have advance numerous accusations and far-fetched theories to discredit Islam and its last Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him). Praise be to Allah alone, all such accusations have been successfully refuted by the Muslims Ummah. Currently, one of the 'reinvented' accusations against the noble character of the Prophet is about his marriage to young Aisha Siddiqa (r.a.). Let's probe some of the orientalists' charges in detail in the light of modern research, historic evidence and the Islamic sources of the Qur'an and the Sunnah to separate truth from falsehood, and display to the world that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is indeed an exemplary for all of mankind. Two main theories are often advance by orientalists to attack the pure character of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) on his marriage to Aisha (r.a.) at her young age. A. He was a Paedophile. B. He was involved in child abuse. Let's analyse each theory to dig out the truth, through the Guidance of Allah (SWT). A. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) married Aisha (r.a.) because he was a paedophile? Definition of a Paedophile: "Pedophile: also spelled PAEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical paedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult." Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1998. "pe.do.phil.ia n [NL] (1906): sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object -- pe.do.phil.i.ac or pe.do.phil.ic adj." Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. The diagnostic criteria for paedophilia according to American Psychiatric Association: Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent intense sexual urges and sexual arousing fantasies involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children.The person has acted on these urges, or is markedly distressed by them.The person is at least 16 years old and at least 5 years older than the child or children in A.DSM-III-R Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, rev ed. 3, (American Psychiatric Association). "In addition to their paedophilia, a significant number of paedophiles are concomitantly or have previously been involved in exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape". (Voyeurism is the recurrent preoccupation with fantasised or acts that involve seeking out or observing people who are naked, or are engaged in grooming or in sexual activity). Harold I. Kaplan et al., Synopsis of Psychiatry, 5th ed. (Williams and Wilkens, 1988), p. 360. Does the prophet fit the above criteria of a paedophile? With the above criteria of a paedophile in mind, lets analyse the lifestyle of the prophet and his marriages. His marriages: Name of Bride Bride's age at marriage Comments Khadija bint khawilad 40 Twice widowed before Sauda Bint Zama 50 Widow Aisha bint Abu Bakr 9 Started living with the prophet at the age of 9. Hafsa Bint Umar bin Khattab 22 Widow Zainab bint Khuzaima 30 ? Umm-I-Salma bint Abu Umayia 26 Widow Zainab Bint Jahash 38 Widow Juwaeria Bint Harith 20 Widow Umm-I-Habiba bint Abu Sufyan 36 Widow Marya Qibtiya bint Shamun 17 Virgin, Egyptian Safia bint Hayi bin Akhtab 17 Widow Raihana bint umru bin hanafa ? ? Maimuna bint harith 36 widow Source: Syed Abu Zafar Zain, The Prophet of Islam, the Ideal Husband (Lahore: Kazi Publications), pp. 10-12. Statistics from the above table: Percentage of his wives who were 17 years and older = 91 % Percentage of his wives who were widows = 75% Comments: The statistics show that the prophet's marriage to Aisha at her young age was an exception and not a norm of his other marriages. Furthermore "a paedophile's main mode of sexual satisfaction is with prepubescent girls", which is contradictory to the 91% of prophet's marriage to women 17 years and over. An unbiased examination of Prophet's life and his marriages to his wives blatantly rejects the notion of his lifestyle fitting that of a paedophile. All his brides were aged widows (except Aisha and Marya). Moreover, according to the criteria in the references cited above in Synopsis of Psychiatry, a vast majority of paedophiles possess a history of exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape. Again, there is no single reference from either religious or secular sources that the noble Prophet ever indulged in such sadistic behaviour (God forbid). This truth is observed and accepted by both Muslims and unbiased non-Muslims scholars. "It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher." Annie Besant, The Life and Teachings of Muhammad (Madras, 1932), p. 4. B. Others claim that the noble Prophet (peace be upon him) indulged in child-abuse when he married Aisha at her young age Let scrutinise this allegation... Definition of Child Abuse: Child Abuse, also called CRUELTY TO CHILDREN, the wilful and unjustifiable infliction of pain and suffering on children. The term can denote the use of inordinate physical violence; unjustifiable verbal abuse; the failure to furnish proper shelter, nourishment, medical treatment, or emotional support; incest; other cases of sexual molestation or rape; and the making of child pornography. Frequently described by the medical profession as the "battered-child syndrome," abusive treatment of children is almost universally proscribed by criminal statutes. Child abuse can have serious future consequences for the victims involved. Delays in physical growth, impaired language and cognitive abilities, and problems in personality development, learning, and behaviour are common following instances of child abuse or neglect. Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1998 Comments: None of the criteria of child-abuse applies to the noble life of the Prophet (pbuh). There is no single incident of any infliction of pain and suffering by the prophet on Aisha or any other human being for that matter. Neither any instance of verbal or sexual abuse can be concluded from the relationship of the prophet with Aisha (r.a.) or any of his wives. An abused child can have serious future consequences...delayed physical growth, impaired language..learning and behaviour...etc (above definition). As one examines the chaste life of Aisha (r.a.), her personality, physical, mental and spiritual development are all contrary to that of an abused child. In fact through the Prophet's marriage and his guidance to Aisha, history testifies that she should be labelled not as an abused child but as a 'blessed child'. After analysing and refuting the accusations against the noble character of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), the only viable alternative left with us is: C. The Prophet married Aisha for the benefit of Islam and Humanity Lets analyse... 1. The Prophet married Aisha primarily for three reasons: a. To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion). b. To educate and train Aisha for the purposes of Islam. c. To utilise her capabilities for the sake of Islam. 2. Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahy (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet. "He said, 'I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that..." Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p. 285. 3. Aisha (r.a.) was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth. 4. In her youth, already known for her striking beauty and her formidable memory, she came under the loving care and attention of the Prophet himself. As his wife and close companion she acquired from him knowledge and insight such as no woman has ever acquired. Aisha lived on almost fifty years after the passing away of the Prophet. She had been his wife for a decade. Much of this time was spent in learning and acquiring knowledge of the two most important sources of God's guidance, the Qur'an and the Sunnah of His Prophet. Aisha (r.a.) was one of the three wives (the other two being Hafsa (r.a.) and Umm Salama (r.a.) who memorised the Revelation. Like Hafsa (r.a.), she had her own script of the Qur'an written after the Prophet had died. So far as the Hadith or sayings of the Prophet is concerned, Aisha (r.a.) is one of four persons (the others being Abu Hurayra, Abdullah ibn Umar, and Anas ibn Malik) who transmitted more than two thousand sayings. From her, 2210 Hadith have come, out of which 174 Hadith are commonly agreed upon by both Bukhari and Muslim. Many of her transmissions pertain to some of the most intimate aspects of personal behaviour which only someone in Aisha's position could have learnt. What is most important is that her knowledge of Hadith was passed on in written form by at least three persons including her nephew Urwah who became one of the greatest scholars among the generation after the Companions. It is the claim of the Scholars of Islam that without her, half of the Ilm-I-Hadith [knowledge, understanding of the Hadith (and Islam)] would have perished. 5. Many of the learned companions of the Prophet and their followers benefited from Aishah's knowledge. Abu Musa al-Ash'ari once said: "If we companions of the Messenger of God had any difficulty on a matter, we asked Aisha about it." "Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said from Said ibn al-Musayyab that Abu Musa al-Ash'ari came to Aisha, the wife of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said to her, "The disagreement of the companions in a matter which I hate to bring before you has distressed me." She said, "What is that? You did not ask your mother about it, so ask me." He said, "A man penetrates his wife, but becomes listless and does not ejaculate. "She said, "When the circumcised part passes the circumcised part ghusl is obligatory." Abu Musa added, "I shall never ask anyone about this after you." Al-Muwatta of Imam Malik, Hadith 2.75. Arwa Bin Zubair says, "I did not find anyone more proficient [than Aisha (r.a.)] in the knowledge of the Holy Qur'an, the Commandments of Halal (lawful) and Haram (prohibited), Ilmul-Ansab and Arabic poetry. That is why, even senior companions of the Prophet used to consult Aisha (r.a.) in resolving intricate issued". Ibn Qayyim and Ibn Sa'ad, Jala-ul-Afham, vol. 2, p. 26. Abu Musa al-Ash'ari says: "Never had we (the companions) had any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her". Sirat-I-Aisha, on the authority of Trimidhi, p. 163. 6. As a teacher she had a clear and persuasive manner of speech and her power of oratory has been described in superlative terms by al-Ahnaf who said: "I have heard speeches of Abu Bakr and Umar, Uthman and Ali and the Khulafa up to this day, but I have not heard speech more persuasive and more beautiful from the mouth of any person than from the mouth of Aisha." The Prophet said, "The superiority of 'Aisha to other ladies is like the superiority of Tharid (i.e. meat and bread dish) to other meals. Many men reached the level of perfection, but no woman reached such a level except Mary, the daughter of Imran and Asia, the wife of Pharaoh." Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith, Narrated by Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari Hadith 4.643. Musa Ibn Talha (r.a.) says, "I did not see anyone more eloquent than Aisha (r.a.)" Mustadrak of Hakim, vol.4, p.11. 7. Men and women came from far and wide to benefit from her knowledge. Aisha's great interest in the study of the Qur'an is understandable. She was an eye-witness to a number of revelations and had therefore a clear idea of the circumstances in which they were revealed. It was on her bed alone (and no other consort's) that the Prophet received Wahy (Divine Revelations) several times. This helped her in interpreting the verses. 8. At the time of the Prophet's death, the Prophet's head was on her lap. It was in her quarters that the Prophet was buried. The life of Aisha (R) is a proof that a woman can be far more learned than men and that she can be the teacher of scholars and experts. Her life is also a proof that a woman can exert influence over men and women and provide them with inspiration and leadership. Aisha (R) is a continuing inspiration and role model to today's youth who are diligently searching for an example amongst the pop stars, movie actresses and sports stars. May the memory of her's live forever in the heart of the Muslim Ummah and may Allah grant her the highest abode in Paradise...Ameen.
and conclusion:!!! Conclusion It was the aforementioned qualities of Aisha (r.a.) and the Prophet's guidance in moulding these capabilities for the service of Islam, were the main reasons, why the Prophet Married young Aisha (r.a.), and not the perverted reasons brought forth by misguided orientalists. Muslims invite all sincere humans to study the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon) in the light of the authentic sources of the Qur'an and the Sunnah (exemplary sayings and deeds of the Prophet) and judge for themselves where the truth lies. Indeed, by recognising the truth of Islam as the final and complete Guidance sent by our Creator can humanity find lasting peace in this world and a means of salvation from the hell fire in the hereafter. "I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." George Bernard Shaw, The Genuine Islam, vol. 1, no. 81936. Though, the Prophet is not among us in his flesh, but his exemplary life has been preserved for all humanity to follow. When Truth comes Falsehood disappears, Islam came, now Shirk (polytheism) must clear. Welcome to Islam... Sabeel Ahmed 29 April 1998. ----------------------------- [Currently, he is the co-chairman of the Da'wa Committee and Board of Director at the Muslim Community Center, Illinois. A student of Ahmed Deedat and now works for the 1-800-662-islam hotline of ICNA. His main interest is in comparative religion.)
ottomans Im going to open a thread on aisha so we can discuss it there rather than taking over a thread on sufism
