Spitting on Vietnam Soldiers

I said brainwashing because that's what it is. I'm against the government, I'm against the military because look what they do! Take young, impressionable young kids, give them a cool gun and outfit, and send them off to war when they're too young to be throwing their lives away.
If this war isn't justified, how are the soldiers who are fighting it justified? How are they helping the country by killing people who aren't even a threat to us?

 

Why should someone fight because the GOVERNMENT PIGS ask them to fight? Why should someone fight because all the other sheep are doing it?
Hell, if they want to throw away their lives, that's their deal. I'd rather spend my time doing something productive like going to college and educating myself, not shooting a gun.


I don't want this thread closed, and neither do a lot of people. You're trying to censor it. if you don't like it, don't look at it, hmmm?

 

Because its not the topic. You and others have hijacked it to spout your Anti views of life. Your questions show you have no understanding of the reality of the situation the soldiers found themselves in then, or find themselves in now. You use the term "government pigs" asking them to fight as though the service people had/have the option to refuse. On one hand you ask why they should do it and on the other say "thats their deal".
By all means get an education you need one.
What bothers me most is thinking we fought so you would have the privilege to talk trash.
I never asked for you to be censored, when I wrote admin about this thread I specifically mentioned you by name and said I supported your right to voice your opinion. But that it was off topic here, and should be a seperate thread.
Your telling me if I don't like it not to look at it, I suppose you feel I am only entitled to my opinion if I agree with you.

Soldiers fight for your right to be wrong and say it outloud.
~Pray for Peace

 

Reminds me of that line from the Barry McGuire song 'Eve of Destruction'
"You’re old enough to kill, but not for votin’
You don’t believe in war, but what’s that gun you’re totin’"

 

Uhmm... You say PEACE but what's that machine gun you're holding, and in your own words, "I was death from above, and guess what I got quite good at it."

How many babies did you kill?

Although, you say, you were merely drafted, it does not hide the fact, that you willingly participated in an unjust, immoral and illegal war, similar to this current Iraq war, a war that you had no business getting yourself involved to begin with. In fact, American involvement during the Vietnam War was a creation of the US government, if you know your history, check out the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

You could have resisted the draft, you could have fled the country, you could have disobeyed your superiors. Instead, you chose to shoot and kill people in an illegal war, justifying your actions as merely "obeying orders" or "serving your country".

By analogy, if you illegally entered a house and started randomly shooting and killing people, you would be considered a mass murderer.
And yet, as a paid "soldier", you're allowed to carry a gun and allowed expression of your murderous instinct, in the guise of "serving your country".

Like I said, I never spat on any of you losers who served in Nam'.

However, with such hypocrisy exhibited by "soldiers" like you, if a few loose spittle ever did came your way, I guess, as a group, deserve it.

 

Ooooh, you like to close this thread because you don't like some of the stuff that you read? Is that right?

The truth hurts, especially when it concerns the tragedy of the Vietnam War, the Iraq war, etc, and when confronted with the truth, you cower under your bedsheets, preferring to demand that offending threads be closed.

Like I said, if you were man enough to carry a gun and blow people's brains away, you should be man enough face the truth and not continue to live with the delusion that participating in immoral, unjust and illegal wars such as Vietnam or Iraq was actually, "serving your country."

Who were you actually serving?
You were serving the corporations, part of the military-industrial complex that benefit from raking in the millions of dollars (blood money) as a result of American involvement in these wars.

The government was merely there to provide distraction, the entertainment and the lies.

 

I respectfully disagree.
The original post by Lizardman0 was about how he felt hearing that hippies had spit on returning troops, and that he had been told not to become a hippy because of that. There was no mention of condemning the troops.
I never suggested that discussing the military's role in foreign policy wasn't an appropriate subject, only that another thread be started for that purpose.
Iraq was invaded by a UN force, because of Saddam's refusal to abide by multiple UN resolutions. We are not alone in Iraq. Saddam had only to say he would comply and the war could have been avoided.
"Imperialistic" is another point of debate by itself.
Al-Qaeda's stated purpose in attacking NY city was to bring down America. Ben Laden's latest offer was for all of America to convert to Islam. I doubt he would allow this site to remain on the Web. His base of operations was Afghanistan then under the control of the Taliban. Theres your country and government.
The military recognizes and demands that its members not follow illegal orders. Whether something is immoral or unjustifiable is a judgment on your part. It is not a legitimate defence for not obeying orders. War is morally repugnant, no one disagrees with that.
I am confused by the question of where I draw the line between what the government orders its troops to do and the soldiers mindset. I'll guess what you mean is, do the troops have to agree with their orders? Are they required to agree? No. The military is not a democracy. It requires team work, and the mindset of trying to achieve a common goal. That does not make them mindless robots. They are required to make life and death decisions, robots wouldn't last long.
Why take the young? They are physicaly fit, and have yet to start a family. When the draft was in effect during WWII, Korea, and VietNam the men with familys were exempt, or went last.
I have a higher opinion of the 18yo who served, they were not as easily molded as you seem to think. You could cut our hair, put us in uniforms, and teach us to march in a straight line, but not change who we were to begin with. Your selling our people short.
Its funny you should end with cannon fodder. When asked by the high school guidence councilor what I was going to be after graduation that was my answer to him.

Soldiers fight for your right to free speech.
~Pray for Peace

 

I'm not disagreeing with your post, in fact I rather liked it, but the domino theory wasn't exactly disproved. After the war both Laos and Cambodia were invaded by Communist Vietnam. This was part of the domino doctrine, so it wasn't actually a lie.

 

Your wasting your breath, if you don't agree your a warmonger.

 

Uhmm... Not really.

The Communist Pathet Lao government who took over Laos, was Laotian.

The Communist Vietnamese invaded Cambodia to drive out the Communist Khmer Rouge.

It wasn't a domino effect.

The "domino doctrine" was merely concocted by the government to provide justification for American involvment in the Vietnam War.

 

That is very true. Thank you Skip.
I was going to post something to debunk poster warmhands420s' comment regarding that the "Killing Fields" happened after the U.S. left the area, and not as a consequence of the misguided and ill-fated American involvement in Indo-China.

Again, looks like warmhands420 learned his/her history according to the official government lie and continues to hold on to these distorted lies and beliefs, inspite of evidence to the contrary. A typical example of the stupid American buying and holding on to official government distortions to deceive the very people who's interest it is supposed to serve.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/04/15/world/main184477.shtml


"Few Americans realize that close to two million people died, that none of the perpetrators have been brought to justice and that the United States helped bring about the crisis that lead to the Khmer Rouge takeover."


"The truth is that U.S bombing of Cambodia killed many thousands, long before the Khmer Rouge had a chance to."


"The first phase of the genocide, from 1969 to 1975, was pretty brutal," said Noam Chomsky, an MIT professor and longtime critic of the role of U.S. policy in the Cambodian tragedy. "By mid-1975, when the Khmer Rouge took over, most of the country was pretty much a wreck."

 

That is correct Skip.
Few Americans understand, even vets themselves are willing to admit that Cambodia was a relatively peaceful, neutral country until the American involvement in neighboring Vietnam spilled on into Cambodia.

Hard to imagine why indiscriminate use of firepower in Vietnam would not spill into neighboring towns of villages of neigboring Cambodia, when the Vietnam War itself was never officially declared by the U.S. government.

This reminds me of a poster I saw recently over the Internet, it goes:
"It's not fascism, when we do it." LOL.
In other words, "Fascism, is not fascism, when the American government (currently under the Republican Neo-Con leadership) does it." LOL.




The hypocrisy exhibited by the goverment, the military and even the deluded sheeple within our society is so pathetic. It has contributed to the dumbing down of America and is reflected in the woeful state of affairs our country is experiencing nowadays.

 

Which brings us back to what I posted 3 years ago, the day this thread got started: Don't blame the soldiers that fight the war, blame the government that wages the war!

Yes, America has a shitty track record when it comes to installing new governments in an attempt to promote stability. All too often they become corrupt and totalitarian, sometimes even genocidal. But this is a failure of the American government, not the soldiers.

Now the Bush administration, given a mandate by his re-election, is attempting to prop up new governments in Iraq and Afghanistan, after the old ones we helped prop up turned on us. Like most Americans I believe they will ultimately fail. But I won't blame the soldiers serving in the Middle East when it all falls apart, though they are all volunteers. And I certainly don't blame the Vietnam vets for the way the shit hit the fan, especially since so many of them were drafted.

 

I don't really care to get involved in this thread. I will say that although I didn't serve in Vietnam, and I did avoid the draft to a small degree, I do respect those that went and served honerably. Although I didn't serve, I understand both sides of the discussion and although I may question the war, I honor our soldiers. Thanks for doing what you felt was your duty.

 

I dont do all the reading it takes to reply to this thread. I have no animosity toward those indivduals who feel they have to spit on and direct hate speech to a person serving in the armed services either. Fact I protect their right to do so. If Skin heads can yell ****** on the internet I think you can tolerated this. Also I might point out that if you are in fact Ex-military you should already be NUMB and not effected by anything. Coming from experience Im rather NUMB, nothing anyone says or does really matter to me. Had I came home from Iraq and been spit upon. I would of thought nothing of it, Probable cause I befreinded many Iraqi with Chocolate Candy Bars, And American Love..
The arugument here is to complicated for me to have a true opinion of any importance, Since I didnt study military conflicts in South Asia.

When a leader destroys the legitimacy of the armys moral order by betraying whats right, he inflicts manifold injuries on his men and mankind alike.