Why do people criticize universal healthcare?

I think several of our friends from Canada and the United Kingdom will tell us there are no "6 month waiting lists for surgery".

 

Mainly because alot of Americans are 'clueless about universal heathcare.Instead they mistakenly think having 1000s of insurance companies, and the big drug companies run the show that they are better off.I'll take the NHS,Englands system any day.The US healthcare system used to be fine,it simply does not work anymore.Some people use the words "free enterprise" when trying to defend the US system.You can use the same words and apply that to a cocaine dealer.

 

Its all about the love of money over actually helping people.

Insurance is a BIG money business in this country. One of the largest. The lobby for these people is very powerful in Washington. Thats why our representatives keep trying to force us into buying a policy from these companies instead of the government picking up the tab. It's a rigged system, and a prime example of corporate intrusion into government.

I think once Americans get an honest opinion of how universal healthcare works, they'll move en masse in that direction. All they need is the education and get fed up enough over the current situation.

Time for a revolution in this country. On several fronts.


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It's beyond unacceptable,its downright obscene how influential all the big business special interest groups in the US government have become.This was not always true.Whether its the insurance companies , drug companies or hundereds of others.EVERY big business special interest group,lobbyists etc. must be REMOVED from the government.That will solve alot of problems,not only healthcare.Every democratic nation has universal healthcare, except the US and I think South Africa.

 

And I do agree,heathcare should be about helping people,not money.Maybe western Europe is just more civilized than the US is now.They(western Europe)are certainly alot smarter now.AND since I live in the UK half of the year,I will tell everyone that you actually get SUPERIOR healthcare in the UK compared to the US.I have mixed views of Michael Moore but the movie "Sicko" about US heathcare is right on the money,totally accurate.The US "the so called richest country",quite pathetic.

 

1. because government run programs are costly and ineffective and there are long waiting lists for low quality treatment, just look at the government run health care systems that we already have, the VA being the worst.

2. because it's morally wrong to hold one man responsible for the desicions another made. He clogged his arteries with bacon, filled his lungs with tobacco, and his liver with alcohol, now you want me to pay for keeping him around? Works the other way as well, should the state be involved in what i eat, smoke, or drink, or how often i exercise?

3. because it has not been proven to work well in the countries who have adopted it.

4. because consumer choice and industry competition lower costs, state subsidies and state run and managed programs do not, prices will not drop in the health industry they will rise and the cost will be displaced into taxes, the countries who have universal health care, look at their tax rates, in the end they are paying more for health care than they were.

thats just off the top of my head, but i'm sure i can come up with more.

 

Thankfully i've found a source with much more info than i:

http://www.balancedpolitics.org/universal_health_care.htm

there are also of course arguments in favor of universal healthcare presented, but i find the against arguments much more persuasive.

Besides that there is common sense: There is no such thing as a free lunch.

We should be finding ways to reduce the cost of healthcare, universal healthcare makes a big deal about "getting everyone covered" (as if that's actually possible, and as if the State is the proper way to accomplish this), but says very little about how costs would be reduced. That's because costs will not be reduced, under universal healthcare (communal healthcare) costs will rise, for the same reason that public education drains our wallets alittle more every year and yet produces miserable results. Competition breeds excellence, choice brings effeciency. There are ways to reduce healthcare costs, nationalizing the healthcare industry is definitely not one of them.

 

Yep,the insurance industry would suffer with universal healthcare,poor,poor babies.LOL.Seriously who the fuck cares about the insurance industry other than their CEOs. I'll leave it at this ask ANY citizen in Western Europe if they would trade their healthcare system for the one in the US. 99.9% of them would say NO.

 

I didn't say anything about caring about the industries, i said i care about consumer choices, individual freedom, effecient management, and low costs, none of which would be present with universal healthcare. Also take the poll then post it, otherwise your opinion of what "99%" of europeans might think is just in your head.

 

Under universal healthcare you can choose your doctors.I actually have taken a poll.And not some BS internet link either.As I mentioned a few posts up,I reside 6 months of every year in the UK.I have asked many people in Britain if they would like the US medical system,and the answers are always the same,"NO" or "NO WAY".They view the US system how it is 'now as insane.Remember we are not talking about what used to work 30 years ago.

 

Hasn't there already been like three threads dedicated to this topic??

Most people don't even know what socialized healthcare is. It's just another way for the government to run your life by mandating the type of care you can and can't have, all the while keeping closer tabs on you. Along with this they want to mandate yearly mental health screenings, and if you don't meet the requirements of what is socially acceptable, you will be forcibly drugged. Who will set the criteria for this testing? The pharmaceutical companies, of course. So it's also another way for the pharmaceutical companies to draw in even more money than they already are. There is a reason that big-pharma is pushing for this.

I would rather pay for my own healthcare and get the treatment I want, instead of having the government dictate to me what kind of care I can have.

Not everyone sees the state as their good shepherd and wants them running their life. I want the state out of my life. I am not their slave, nor their guinea pig. I understand they're eugenicists.

 

I believe the government should serve the people and not rule over them.

Whats the point of paying taxes if its not going to be spent on ourselves?

The government should provide all of us with healthcare and education, because this insures the health of the nation and the people within it.

As it is, we are a nation of sickly, undereducated halfwits. And it shows.


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Go to your local VA or other goverment run hospital to see our future under universal health care.

 

Under the CURRENT system, yes.

The VA is a poor excuse for healthcare on a good day.

But...with proper funding instead of a shoestring budget, this would change. They're starved for funding and the current system reflects that starvation.

Lots of good people in the VA, so don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. They can't be blamed for the amount of money they're given to work with.


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Generosity feels good man. An if it doesn't, just think that lots of countries pay more taxes than the americans do amd they arn't sad about it.

Is it really that morally wrong when tobacco and fast food are regulated? Actually it reduces the cost of healthcare in the long term.

 

At work, our insurance premiums went up a good bit because, to make the long story short, "we used the insurance too much".

I fear this will happen if taxes cover health care. The more it is used the more it will cost. There is no way a finite dollar amount can be given on how much this will cost, and i know i have never seen the gov't do much within their budget or honestly to my satisfaction. If the gov't was a business, it would have filed for bankruptcy long ago.

 

Right. That would be nice. But it appears that isn't in the cards as things currently stand. The people pushing state healthcare aren't doing so because they care, but because they want to more easily control you while making a profit for themselves.

What is the point of paying taxes to a corrupt government that wants to put the control of care into their hands and then dictate what kind of treatment you can and can't receive, which will be dicated by the pharmaceutical cartels working with the government? Who really stands to gain from this?

But instead they provide us with toxic drugs and vaccines, and indoctrination instead of education.

This is true. Most of the nation is sickly, and they are taking the poison being fed to them by big-pharma. You would think if the quality of care in the US was so great, people would be getting better instead of sicker. Well, just wait until the state (in conjunction with the pharmaceutical companies) has full control over it. It will be more of the same, and you'll actually see people even sicker than they are now because everyone will be taking their toxic waste.

 

It's not generosity if it is forced.

obviously we speak with very different groups of people.

of course it is. Who are you to tell another human what he can and can't eat or smoke?

that's not a good enough reason to regulate what people ingest. and it's false, if there is one thing the state is not good at, it's bringing down costs.

 

Do you people (insurance company shills,obviously)ever do any research on Denmark,Sweden,et al?-------Oh yeah--We're MEN here--we go it alone.We don't want to help those less fortunate than us.pfffttt..Mighty fuckin stingy of you-all,I'd say.

 

Shane, your logic of 'it's not my responsibility to help others' could be applied to every aspect of taxes. 'It's not my responsibility to provide education for someone's child, I didn't make them breed' , 'it's not my responsibility to provide policing for somebody else, not my fault they went into the bad part of town' Isolationism is a selfish philosophy, we live in a society, and have a duty to care for those less fortunate. Healthcare is a right, not a privilege. As is education, as is policing.