A Christians Perspective of Lao Tzu

will do

 

Well maybe for you it would be easy.
But the teachings of Jesus taken as a whole would simply show that you have taken these out of context.

Some even go as far as to say Jesus went and learned form the Gurus of the east but the simple truth is that he was exactly what he said he was the Son Of God.

 

How are they taken out of context OWB?
It's not like he quoted Christ saying he brings a sword and claimed that Christians are into jihad.
What, really, are they supposed to mean, if it's such a simple truth?
Though you are right, he was the son of God, just like you and me. XD

 

what teachings or context of his message conflict with my interpretation of the previous quotes I listed? If you know of some, I would be interested in hearing them. I can't promise that I wont just interpret them differently from you though.

eh, I'm aware of that theory, but there is no way for me to know if that is true or not.

but I'm with RELAYER. he was the son of God. But aren't we all?

 

Well, yes and no. I thought that the current view of most christians was that jesus represented a new covenant with God. Which is why many parts of the OT are obsolete to christians. In fact, I believe that some of these views are directly attributed to the Man himself. So I don't see how you can claim that he believed everything the OT said. If you could perhaps come up with a NT quote to back what you say up I might be more willing to take a look at your claims. But I'm pretty sure I could come up with a different interpretation anyway. It would be fun to see, however.

As it stands, I don't believe that Jesus would consider most of what buddhism teaches to be false. IN another message you claimed that while perhaps Jesus' message fits in quite well with eastern philosophy, eastern philosophy does not fit with Jesus' message. I would argue that the apparent contradictions (the biggest being the (non)existence of a God in B, I would suppose) boil down to philosophical differences - man made distinctions that are coloured by the societies each emerged from. The core seems very similar - direct gnosis and experience of the Divine Godhead (in christianity) and of the Universe (in buddhism).

This seems reasonable, given that the methods each espouse to obtain their desired results are strikingly similar.

 

Perhaps you should practice what you say in your sig?

Everyone's replies to this post of yours seems to have showed much more compassion and loving kindness than you did here. Unless you're trying to be funny, which I somehow doubt.

What originally set you off appears in my mind to be nothing more than a joke. If you saw in it something else perhaps you're looking at a mirror into your own psyche instead of out into the observable world.

This is always funny ground, because I could be reacting inappropriately to you. If I am, I certainly apologize and would welcome knowing. After all, that's one way to cleanse the lenses of my perception.

 

Perhaps you're putting more into this then there should be.

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Both of you ask about context. In most books context is not very important. You can freely quote from them with little or no thought or worry about context. But the bible is different, quoting something from the Bible without concern for the context can lead to big mistakes about the meaning of what is being quoted.

neodude1212 let’s take this quote that you made:
"The light of the body is the eye; therefore when thine eye is single, they whole body is also full of light, but when thine eye is evil, they body is also full of darkness."

First, who was Jesus talking to? This is part of what is called the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus was talking the common people of Israel, who would have had little or no knowledge of eastern religions so any reference to them would have been lost on his audience.

Next, what was Jesus talking about? Jesus had just finished talking about prayer.
Now he says:
(Matthew 6:19-34) 19 “Stop storing up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 Rather, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If, then, your eye is simple, your whole body will be bright; 23 but if your eye is wicked, your whole body will be dark. If in reality the light that is in you is darkness, how great that darkness is! 24 “No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. YOU cannot slave for God and for Riches. 25 “On this account I say to YOU: Stop being anxious about YOUR souls as to what YOU will eat or what YOU will drink, or about YOUR bodies as to what YOU will wear. Does not the soul mean more than food and the body than clothing? 26 Observe intently the birds of heaven, because they do not sow seed or reap or gather into storehouses; still YOUR heavenly Father feeds them. Are YOU not worth more than they are? 27 Who of YOU by being anxious can add one cubit to his life span? 28 Also, on the matter of clothing, why are YOU anxious? Take a lesson from the lilies of the field, how they are growing; they do not toil, nor do they spin; 29 but I say to YOU that not even Sol´o·mon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. 30 If, now, God thus clothes the vegetation of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much rather clothe YOU, YOU with little faith? 31 So never be anxious and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or, ‘What are we to put on?’ 32 For all these are the things the nations are eagerly pursuing. For YOUR heavenly Father knows YOU need all these things. 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these [other] things will be added to YOU. 34 So, never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Sufficient for each day is its own badness.

You’ll notice that your quote is in the middle of this quote at verses 22-23.

Now I ask you as you read this does it seem that Jesus is talking about enlightenment?

It seems that the subject under discussion is materialism and so taken in context it would seem that keeping your eye simple is talking more about keeping your eye focused on a simple life than talking about a Third Eye of Enlightenment.

That’s what I mean by saying that the quote was taken out of context.

 

Okay, how about this, where Jesus is quoted as saying:

(Matthew 5:17-18) "Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill; for truly I say to YOU that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place. ​

 

what version is this?

to me, this still relates to enlightenment. enlightenment as a spiritual state is probably rather simple, something to just be realized rather than understood. but of course, being wicked will never yield enlightenment, so therefor you will be full of darkness, seperated from God. At any rate, why would he use the singular "eye". In your version, he states, "the lamp of the body is the eye, rather than eyes. This is a significant difference if you ask me.

 

You seem to be mixing two incompatible trains of thought

 

nothing is incompatable when looked at from the right perspective. simply my perceptions though...

 

I'm not trying to prevent you from believing or perceiving anything you want. I was merely pointing out that in context Jesus was talking about keeping your life simple, not enlightenment. If you want to take things out of context, anyone can be made to be saying almost anything.

PS As for Jesus saying eye instead of eyes, I would ask in the quote; "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." is the speaker thus speaking of the "third eye" or enlightenment because he uses eye instead of eyes?

 

Are you serious right now?

The New Testament wasn't written till AFTER Jesus' death, so how the fuck could you say - oh it wasn't in the bible so Jesus doesn't believe it. WTF? Why are you trying to put Jesus into a box? Your trying to confine him to certain scriptures and ideals that most likely aren't even his.

Do you really believe the Bible is Jesus' 110% true teachings? No! Many, many, MANY of his teachings have been left out, misinterpreted, and straight up CHANGED. You'd be a tool under the control of the elite/religion machine if you thought otherwise.

Jesus taught the kingdom is within you (so why look outside to religion,etc if you have all the tools you need inside yourself?), this is ALL you need to know and probably his most important lesson.

 

Other than a few secular writings from the first century that only say that Jesus existed. The only source of knowledge about Jesus is the Bible.

So I would be interested to know, how you know, what Jesus taught or didn't teach. As for what you say, Jesus taught; that the kingdom is within you, isn't that from the Bible? How do you know that wasn't as you say; "straight up CHANGED"?

 

OWB, yes the original quote we were discussing can still relate to the Ajna chakra, or the 3rd eye, or the mind's eye, or the window to the Soul. This does not mean enlightenment exactly, it's only a step in that directions, and just because there are certain names for it, it doesnt belong soley to Eastern practices just because they acknowledged it first. And how about how Jesus told us that when we pray, we should retire to our closet and speak to God in private, so that no one hears us? And then goes on to CONDEMN! the very method of prayer now accepted as proper, which would be praying out loud in a group? What do you get out of this? Besides being loud and being heard. It sounds to me that Jesus was telling us EXACTLY to practive meditation, and there are many ways in which one may meditate. The fact is, he's talking about prayer in secret, for a person to search for the Light within themself, wether you want to understand that as enlightenment, 3rd eye, yoga, or just plain prayer, it's the same exact thing. Jesus told us to expel darkness from our eye or lamp, and told us to pray in secret with an honest thirst and hunger to get to know God, to merge with a consciousness which directs our awareness to God, and not to scream and holler in churches and dance like inebriated festival goers. The point is to find God here and now and exist with love, and not hope that The Kingdom that is within you will be within you someday and you within it. It's already happening, and Jesus told us very plainly to embrace it here and now.

 

RELAYER, as I've said before you can pretty much believe anything you want and if you take a person's comments out of context you can pretty much get them to say anything you want. But if you really want to know and get the sense of what someone is really saying you have to know the context.

I've already talked about the context of the "eye" thing. The context there was materialism and was talking about keeping your "eye" on the ball, the simple life.

As for your "prayer" thing being meditation, the Bible already talks about meditation so there would be no need for Jesus to conceal counsel about meditation by calling it “prayer” so more than likely he was talking about, well, prayer. Next the context of that was that he was talking about hypocrites and how they make a big show of their worship, even standing on the street and praying in a loud voice so everyone would know how religious they were. So Jesus was telling his disciples; don’t do that, it would be better to pray at home than to make a show of prayer.

So believe what you want but if you really want to know what Jesus was talking about, don't take it out of context.

 

Well, ok friend that's fair enough. We do all receive and interpret thing's in our own ways, and though we all look at God differently, we all surely arrive at the same destination when this life is over.
However I just want to say that I find it rather unfair that one can so easily claim that not only do I not know what context Jesus was speaking in (trust me friend, I do) when I quote Him, but that I also dont know what He was talking about. Are you really so sure that you do know what He was talking about? Because I see a lot of people in this world who claim to understand Jesus teachings, yet are some of the most ignorant and selfish people I've met.
Ok, so since I quoted Jesus on his prayer comment, how does that become out of context? Are you simply denying what Jesus said, only because He said it in a rant about how screwed off the top the hypocrites are? I dont see how that makes any difference (though I was keeping in mind the context when I quoted Him), He still said it is better to go into your closet and pray. Just because He said such a thing is better than praying loudly, that, to me, doesnt automatically negate the fact that He said it is better to go into your closet and pray.
Now, let's be serious here for a minute, Jesus talking about prayer. How is that any different than meditation? Because last time I checked, the whole purpose of yoga was to align your consciousness with God's will. So, shall I instead ask God for what I desire physically or mentally when I pray? Or shall I praise God's Love and be thankful for my chance to exist in this world of Light? You tell me without bringing such a silly excuse as context into play this time. I mean that is a very childish means to avoid a real conversation OWB, no intention at offence but again, let's be realistic.
God blesss ~

 

I'm sorry you feel that not taking things out context is "silly" and "childish".

I’m also sorry that you believe that "prayer" and "meditation" is the same thing; it must be very confusing to you.

As for my “denying what Jesus said”, I have to ask how does taking what Jesus said at face value amount to denying what Jesus said? How does believing that Jesus was talking about prayer when he said prayer, not meditation, amount to denying what Jesus said? How does believing that this quote about prayer, coming right after his comment about how religious hypocrites pray, might have more to say about not being hypocritical when praying, than that the only place to pray is in a closet, denying what Jesus said? Especially, since Jesus, himself, many times after this quote, prayed openly.

PS No offense taken. I learned long ago to ignore being called names like; silly, childish, ignorant and selfish and being told that you’re not being serious and avoiding a real conversation. I realized that name calling is just a waste of time, does not disprove what you’ve said and usually an indicator that that the person using name calling is just trying to avoid a real conversation.

 

I fully believe that prayer and meditation are in essence the same thing. When you pray, do you not 'meditate' upon God and sit in awe at God's love? Or do you just blidnly sing praises in badly timed, boring, unmelodic chants that probably bore God to death?
And what about Confession and the prayer afterwards? That seems to be a manufactured fear used for control of minds, ifn ya ask me. Why should a person go and spill their sins to a preist, and then receive a numberical command of repetitive prayers in order to be clean? I mean really, you think God doesnt know our sins already? Or that God really needs to hear day after day, over and over again in the same way, how great God is? I dont recall Jesus ever saying that we have to act in such ways. I do, however, recall Jesus saying that we should go into our closet and pray in secret, and no matter what he said before or after that, he still said just that, and I dont see how Im not taking it at face value considering that my calling denial silly and childish is quite similar to Jesus judging the hyprocites. As you said, nothing more than a waste of time right?
God bless ~