Is the U.S. winning the War in Iraq?

Is the United States winning the War in Iraq? I think it is, even though I am a Democrat and an ardent opponent of President George W. Bush. The level of violence is down. More Iraqis are turning agains the suicide bombers and the death squads.

Do you think the United States is winning the War in Iraq? How will the war effect your vote?

 

No one wins in a war.

I will only vote when someone comes along and runs on a platform of making war illegal.

 

I think the question should be why this war was ever waged? And were we lied to in order to begin it?

 

You can't win a war where you're not wanted to begin with.

We've had several years to "rebuild" Iraq and we've failed miserably at that too.

Time to come home. Maybe we should send the troops straight into Washington to restore our democracy? Let those who brought us shock and awe get a little taste of their own medicine.

Vote? For what? You have no power by voting. You have more power when you march than you do when you vote.

You need to intimidate the government and not the other way around. THAT'S a democracy.


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In his book American Theocracy Kevin Phillips suggests that President Bush thought that by conquering Iraq he could flood the market with cheap Iraqi oil, break the economic power of OPEC, and reduce the price of gasoline.

If Bush had won an easy victory in Iraq, and if the price of gasoline had gone down instead of way up few Americans would care if he had lied about weapons of mass destruction. The Republicans would be looking forward to a landslide victory in November.

As it happens, John McCain is still competitive in the polls with Barack Obama. That demonstrates that the United States is a right wing country. Most Americans like cars, guns, and rich people. They dislike the government. I dislike cars, guns, and rich people. I like the government. I also recognize that I am in tbe minority.

 

Suicide bombers and death squads...this isn't a reality show. And what the Iraqis are doing is trying to install some normalcy in their lives through comprise and conversation with sects the US wouldn't even view as human shortly after their invasion. No one wins the only ones getting the big check are the private contractors.

 

completely agree.

 

Ok lets think about this. In all known cases it is proven that Bush himself is an idiot. Basically he is the exact opposite of what his father was. Under his leadership America has had the worst 8 years of its 20th century era. But Bush is not in charge. He is simply a mouth peice for the greater evil known as Big Brother, the man, the establishment, or whatever else you might come to call it man. We can't blame Bush for our problems any more than we can blame Ben Franklin. We are not winning in Iraq because after all we've "done" over there its turned us into one of the most hated countries in the world.

 

Speaking from my personal experiences in Iraq as a cavalry scout I have to agree with "no one wins in war". As it was stated earlier in the thread, the Iraqi people (from what I have witnessed) are making comprimises with their lifestyles to help ease the fatigue that they have endured. However, I think that in time due to what we have been able to accomplish over there, their quality of life will increase.

Sure the people are sick of our Bradleys and tanks rolling through their streets. Tired of being awoken at O'dark:30 in the morning to let soldiers and marines rummage through their belongings for weapons we rarely find. Also, heart struck by the loss of their friends and families since we invaded.

Before our arrival the suicide bombs were few and far between. Things continued without a hitch for the most part. However, things continued at the tempo of the institution. The decisions were made by a single party headed by a man that people didn't follow out of respect, but instead out of fear. Fewer people were dieing then, but they were still dieing and in vein no less.

I do not believe we should of ever invaded in the first place. I do believe that we needed to at the very least eliminate the oppressive forces though. Now that they are gone, the people need to free themselves through enlightenment. America is not the candidate to free their minds for America itself is closed to free thought in many instances.

With either Obama pulling the troops out in 16 months causing an influx of power or McCain somehow "winning" this war, in the end only the Iraqi people can make up their own collective or individual minds to make a change. We cannot force their hand.

 

Just before the war started, I stated on another forum that the people of Iraq would wave and cheer the fact we had toppled Saddam.

I also stated that within 30 days of that, the children would start to throw rocks at us.

The rest is history.



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The US is not winning.
The Iraqi people are winning.
Sure shit has hit the fan over the last few years.
But, the task of "winning" is there.
We as a whole are "winning".

 

I can definitely agree there is change. Stability more then anything. We are far better off then we were in 03' and 04'. Even seems to be improvement over the past year. A note I wholly agree with you on is that it is the Iraqi people that are winning. Or at the very least need to be. There is no noticeable way that this war is going to help us American's. That should be obvious.

I just think once we clean up what we have done, and the people are better off then they have been both before we got there and after, that actual "freedom" or real "democracy" are goals they are going to have to go after on their own.

 

We can't win a war that had no true reason for waging it. The Bush/Cheney administration keeps changing their reasons for it. Not that I think any war has justification, but this one has less than many others. We can't win something we should never have started.

 

Not to drag up "why are we there"...
If you look at the bench marks America and the "international community" has set...these are being met.

 

We all "win" if Iraq remains stable and "safe havens" are removed.
Countries that have not spoken to each other in decades are doing so.
The rules of the game have deffinitly changed.

"There is no noticeable way that this war is going to help us American's. That should be obvious."

Would you like to explain your reasoning here, please.

 

Yes, I suppose I should of been more clear on my meaning. What I'm saying is that there is no 'direct' way that this is going to help us. Terrorism and general hatred towards the west is going to continue no matter what. There was a substantially high amount of it before our entering into Iraq and then while there a sudden and drastic increase.

It is in the hopes of many of the suit and ties in D.C. that our "victory" in Iraq will eliminate the structure and financial lines that these terrorist cells use to stay united. Hopefully if we can break their organization enough they will collapse on themselves and be nothing more then some misdirected kids and thugs. Unfortunately in forum users opinion, this will only offer a delay or temporary lull in the hatred towards the Western way of life and in time these groups will rebuild.

Let's take a look at Ireland for example. For over 800 years now there has been a consistent degree of animosity between the United Kingdom's held counties (the current Northern 6) and the Republic of Ireland (the Southern 26). Even though the official Irish Republican Army is long since gone there are many splinter factions that continue to rise to power and slowly fade away.

So taking away abolishment of terrorism as a victory condition what are we left with? The securing of oil? The issue with our energy crisis isn't so much our access to oil but rather the ability to refine it (among many other things). Even if we were to have double our access to oil, it wouldn't have a significant effect on our energy costs. We need more refineries, unfortunately they take several years to build and cost a fortune.

So what other goals could we look at to consider us winning? We could gain a potential ally (Iraq) as soon as stability is returned to their country (which is quite likely to be decades off until they are returned to "full strength"). However, with Iraq as an ally, other then using them as a center of the Middle Eastern world to gather intelligence on their neighbors, they have little in the means for military strength. Their friendship isn't going to help our relations with Iran (look at the history between Iran and Iraq). The only real benefit seen in my opinion is a strategical location if things go south with some of the more powerful countries we have been on thin ice with over the years (Iran, Syria and now apparently Russia).

To end with, I think that "winning" will only be reserved for the Iraqi's when a degree of stability under their own democratic ruling and the returning of the armed service men and women to their families happens. Other then that, I see no direct way that this war has or is going to help America.

I hope that clears up my meaning a bit.

Thank you,

Chris

 

Yes, I'd say you cleared that up perfectly...

Thank You, Chris.

 

np =P

 

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You said thank you. I was saying, not a problem as I felt bad for not being more clear on my initial post. Then the =P tongue because I felt silly.

Suppose it wasn't really needed. I just have a thing about responding with a "your welcome" or some other acknowledgement showing my gratitude that you were thankful for something I did.