Universal Healthcare - A Bad Idea

Good point, and I agree.

You have to look at the quality of the service provided, though. Social Security benefits are not enough for anyone to live on comfortably. Public school is a disaster, our education system was created to produce obedient factory workers, and little has changed. There is no reward in the system for true intelligence, only for "academic bullemia," the ability to vomit facts back to the instructor verbatim. Look at public housing. The government sure has done a great job there! I would prefer to live under a bridge than in any housing project in Richmond, VA!

Big government, just like big corporations, cannot cater to inividuals or communities in any meaningful way. In an attempt to make sure everyone is treated fairly under such a large system, the policies & procedures prevent individualized care. This is already a huge problem with private insurance, which has competition! Give it over to the government, with no competition, you can forget about indiviualized care. Your treatment plan will be prescribed from a UHC manual.

Keep an eye on the Medicare reforms occuring over the next two years. This in itself will prove to be a disaster.

 

It can't be stopped, but it can be slowed. There are tons of MS patients out there that arestill perfectly capable of living a normal life for years before it gets bad. Her problem hasn't been the MS (yet), it was the strokes. She had just completed 4 years of schooling, and on the day before she graduated she had her first stroke. No use having all those secretary skills when you can't use your arms properly, or walk. That could have been prevented easily.

Okay, now you're just being extreme and obnoxious. It is not unreasonable to help pay for healthcare costs....it works for other countries, why couldn't it work here?

Again, I'll use Shane's example of public schools....Education is not a birth right either, but it contributes to society if you have educated people going out into the world rather than a bunch of illiterate dumbfucks trying to run a nuclear power plant, fixing your power lines, and any other numerous things that keep you comfortable and happy. Toothpaste is nice, but it isn't something that's absolutely needed to run things. gasoline is nice, but there are other ways of transportation. You're not being reasonable. We're not talking about face lifts and tummy tucks here. Just basic healthcare, shit that is necessary to keep people going.

 

No, I have no money stashed away, but I have insurance that I pay for weekly. We have an excellent free clinic here, called Fan Free Clinic. I have volunteered for them before, they provide free treatment to anyone presenting themselves for it, no questions asked. It usually takes 3-5 business days to get an appointment.

Insurance companies would certaintly stop paying for procedures or treatments that the government provides, just as they have done for medicare recipients. I don't know about utilities, but most people cannot afford to send their children to private schools, and many more could not pay for their healthcare without insurance. Imagine if the government operated stores to provide citizens with "free" fresh produce, as an attempt to promote healthy eating habits. Do you think your local farmaers market would continue to operate independently? I think he would be forced to be a farmer for the state, with a significantly reduced salary. How many people would be willing to pay for produce if they could go get it for free?

 

Let me just add that i'm not particularly fond of our public school system, and I'm not using it as a gleaming example of how things should be. I'm only saying that in our current form of government, if you're not productive you get fucked, and health as well as education play a big part in how productive/sucessful you are.

 

This is another part of the problem. Who defines basic? The buearocracy of such a huge system is an enourmous financial burden in itself. Besides, name any prescription drug and almost any medical procedure (with the exception of plastic surgery for vanity's sake), I can provide you with an argument that would make it a "medical necessity."

You mention tummy tuck, how about gastric bypass surgery? The American diet/lifestyle causes a large majority of healthcare expenditures. Should we pay for gastric bypass surgery, or should that be considered the individuals responsibility? How about sex reassignment surgery?
How about medications for erectile dysfunction? What about birth control? Pregnancy prevention is not a medical condition, but it is still much cheaper to pay for the pill than to pay for a baby. If that logic continues, it is much cheaper to buy someones groceries than to pay for their gastric bypass surgery.

I am intentionally being unreasonable. What surprises me is how many people think universal healthcare IS reasonable! Again, I ask you to consider the quality of the products and services the government provides. Also, when our budget gets way out of control, they begin slashing benefits and services. What will happen then?

 

It is naive of you to think the system isn't abused. I would agree with you that people use that as an excuse, making the problem seem bigger than it is, but I see medicaid abuse almost every day! I see welfare abuse as well. I don't agree with people who think women just pop out babies for extra welfare money, and I don't assume that everyone on assistance is abusing it. Most are not abusing it. The abuse of the system is very rampant though, and very expensive. The system also tends to create an entitlement attitude, instead of an attitude of personal accountability and responsibility. The system is really not designed to encourage people to take responsibility for themselves. In fact, it seems to be discouraged.

 

okay, what would be neccasary......

maybe treatments for diseases that can kill???

(edit)- and cannot be changed with lifestyle changes....

 

But, you even said it.... (and believe it or not, a lot of people do not know or accept this)- MOST PEOPLE GETTING ASSISTANCE ARE NOT!!! ABUSING THE SYSTEM.

it's such a simple fact but i think many people either dont know that or forget that all-too-often.

 

are you even real? you've said that to me at least ten times. do you have anything half- intelligent to say at all or should i put you on ignore until you get banned?

 

Brilliant. Why are you still talking?

 

If you go in for cancer, you had better have the money to treat it, or you'll die. Indigent healthcare might as well be non-existent in the US. Everyone should be born with the right to healthcare. Whats wrong with Canada and Cuba, have you experienced their healthcare, or do you still have rights to your parents health policies?

 

High blood pressure and high cholesterol don't kill. They are not acute problems in themselves. They do, however, lead to acute problems that kill...
Depression cannot be cured by lifestyle changes, usually, and usually is not fatal, but it does cost the country billions of dollars each year in lost productivity. Would you treat depression? How about chronic, debilitating pain? It wont kill you, and it can't be cured by lifestyle changes. Do you let them suffer?

I agree with your ideal. It would be wonderful if healthcare was free, along with many other things. I just think it is much to complex to develop a cost effective system that could adequately provide it. I don't think you can develop a healthcare plan that treats a population, you have to treat individuals. I think the administrative cost of instituting such a system would offset any potential savings. Instead of taxing us, let us take the money and save it, invest it, of buy insurance, and plan for our own healthcare. I just think that is the most sensible approach. I would support government regulations of the insurance industry, who can be directly blamed for much of the increase in healthcare spending, due to their own administrative costs and the record profits they have posted every quarter for the last several years.

 

Karl Hungus and Interval Illusion:

Can you start a new thread for the sole purpose of arguing back and forth? This is getting very distracting.

 

An individual that has state medical assistance (ie Medicaid, ADAP, etc) very often has better coverage than persons with private insurance. A medicaid recipient can go to the ER just for a check-up if they so desire. They can go see a dermatologist to treat their acne. No referall needed. Try doing either with your HMO.

Most states have relaxed their criteria for receiving medical assistance. The way the system is now run, the more Medicaid recipients a state has, the more federal funding is provided to the state, saving the state money. Most indigent people can get Medicaid if they are willing to pursue it. Many people don't because of pride. Many people don't because the system is very confusing when trying to qualify. They do need to streamling and expedite the initial screening process, in order to help indigent patients get the care they need, quicker. Most drug companies offer excellent programs to help indigent patients, the problem again, sorting through the red tape.

There are many resources available to indigent patients. Many are unaware, unwilling, or unable to sort through all the red tape. Maybe we should have more social workers to help wade through the red tape with indigent patients, and become patient advocates, but I still don't think universal healthcare is the answer. Then we will all have to sort through the red tape. Another problem with universal healthcare, we will also being paying for healthcare for the majority of Americans that already have it. It seems to me it would be cheaper and more effiecient to focus on the ones that need assistance. We do not need to fund healthcare for Bill Gates, Donald Trump, and Michael Jackson.

 

Actos -- Japan

 

I have no idea...

in regards to Canada, I do have one patient who moved here from Canada. She is always amazed at how quickly she can get a prescription here. She said that in whatever part of Canada she was from, the shortest turn around time for a prescription was four hours. She brought me in all her pill bottles from Canada, she was on two generics that were explicitly banned in this country due to lack of bioequivelency.

Also, a side note about importing prescriptions from Canada:

Canada has a relatively small population, so the drug companies only provide them with a corresponding amount of drugs. American prescriptions imported from canada has increased more than 200% in the last two years, so the Canadian drug supply cannot support all of the requests. To compensate, Canadian pharmacies now import drugs from other countries, such as Mexico and Belize, exclusively to fill American orders with. By circumventing American drug prices, you are circumventing American safety standards. Buyer Beware...

 

I didn't realize you were an exhibitionist. I am down with that...

No, for real, all I was sayin is you posess a unique quality to be obnoxious/irritating/and really funny all at the same time. I hope that stays with you throughout your life. We need more humor much more than we need UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE.

"asshat," I don't know what the fuck that means, but I am laughing my ass off! PhotoGay1, that is GREAT! I love it! You queer bait!

laughing - it burns calories, which in turn helps lower healthcare costs. Thanks for doing your part...

 

Anything that GlaxoSmithKline or AstroZeneca has marketed (both are British companies) as well as anything that Novartis or Roche (both Swiss Companies) has marketed. Between just those four; hundreds of "groundbreaking" drugs have been produced over the last several years.

 

If it's true that 260 million now have good coverage and 30 million don't, then I think your argument here collapses. 89% is not a select few.

Has anybody pursued this information?

 

Why couldn't government provide basic coverage and private companies supplemental? Like that one company - what's it called? - you know, the one with the talking goose in the commercials!

How is Medicaid abused? Unlike free cash or free food, I can't think of a strong incentive to wantonly "consume" health care. I don't go to my doctor unless something's really bothering me.