Question about the experience...

I'm by no means an experienced tripper, but every time I take psychedelics I get this nagging feeling that hallucinogens are really... really important. They have such a profound effect on me, that I feel like they're something I should share with everyone I know. I feel like I kind of... wake up when I'm on acid, and that more people need to be woken up. Especially in this day and age. I don't particularly want to get disoriented or "fucked up". But it felt more like, to me, that I was seeing reality for what it was, rather than escaping it. Does anyone else feel this way? I don't personally know anyone to ask about this kinda stuff. Do many people on hallucinogens feel like they... uh... understand everything? Because most people I talk to about lsd seem to think they're a frolicking unicorn in space when they take it, and if that's the norm, then I am very confused!

 

I totally know what you mean.. and yes, I feel like I know everything. Like the universe unfolds before my very eyes and all is one. It's like I see things more realistically. Its like a little trip into a different world were everything is very clear and its a chance to escape the conditioned everyday mind and see things for what they really are.

 

i know exactly what you mean. i found out that lsd was so spiritual on my own too, and then one day i googled it and found out that's what like 9,505,201 people say.

when i'm frying i feel like god just told me all of this stuff and he keeps expanding on those thoughts in my mind, and that i'm the center of my own universe and at the same time part of another vast one. i also feel like the moment is everything. if we're talking about sad mimes or texas or how some bugs have pinsirs or whatever, that thought and my perception all get morphed into one sense, and its really weird.

 

Last time I did it was Saturday at an Allman brothers/Bob weir concert. 3 hits and it was with a bunch of friends and friendly strangers at the show, dancing all as one. Everything was so filled with love.

A night I will never forget.

 

I know what you mean exactly. Actually I notice that, when I trip with friends and theres a person around that isn't tripping, pretty much the only thing you can do is try to talk them into it.... like it's completely not possible to not do that. Like everyone on the psychedelic are like zombies and just instantly zone on the sober person and even though no one says anything, the zombies are all thinking the same exact thing. I have little doubt that is the exact reason LSD exploded on college campuses in the 60's when it first arrived.

As for knowing everything. Well if I could just say, it is entirely possible for you to know everything. By that I mean, it is possible for you to know everything in relation to your own body. Your body comes with it incredibly complex instincts and information stored in your genetic memory. When your that in touch with your spirit, your body, your mind, you as a whole, on LSD you become aware that your body contains every instinct and advice internally that you would ever need in your entire life. So you do truly know everything on it. But "knowing everything" is not knowing every textbook and written human history, but is rather knowing exactly what your body and soul needs, knowing how to respond to everything you encounter properly. It's simply be in full touch with your instincts, living in the now as they say.

 

This 'knowing everything' often drops at the same time as the 'I don't know anything' feeling. This paradox can be fun, but the latter, 'the more I know the less I understand' mindset seems to be rather appealing. If you can realize both at the same time, you've taken the right dose in the right set and setting. If not, who cares, just try to learn a bit, and resist the urge to withdraw into an enlightened isolation.

Obviously, living in a cave with your thoughts is safe. Not that anyone is implying that this is the proper route to go, I just think, no I fucking know- it happens. Also, trying to explain what you think and being laughed at happens too. Prevail, somehow, friends.

Self deprecation in excess doesn't make for good lectures though, so if you ever hope to achieve the status of T. McKenna, or any other great psychedelic speakers, you need to find a balance.

It's great fun to think you know the universe for a moment though, and many people have felt that from time to time. The question is, 'Were we mislead, or did we forget?' These are the only two options I see.

The way people babble on about enlightenment, and how it makes them realize that other people are stupid is a perfect example of either being mislead or forgetting something. If not, who cares, just try to learn a bit, I suppose.

edit: this 'questioning oneself' effect typically only happens at higher doses. I Imagine it could happen at lower doses for some people.

 

Less thinking, more knowing! yeah, acid can you help you get a lick of that realm if you've been plagued with compulsive thinking.

What is there worth to be lost in thought about all day? The answer to this question seems to be ever fluctuating for most. Nothing would be the most stable, that way, you don't deny whats happening all around you... listen to the words being said, see the actions being made.

 

haha obviously i didn't understand "everything". I know that's impossible. and most of my huge realizations were forgotten the next day. But i remember i felt like I somehow... understood myself? My older sister was on acid with me, and she started thinking of my father (whom she used to clash with constantly) and she had this sort of... inward epiphany, where she couldn't stop crying. She said later that she understood what it was to be him... She told my dad about it, and since then they've been getting along much better. What I don't understand, is why aren't these drugs being studied more extensively? I think they could help a lot of people if administered under the right circumstances. Also... sometimes when I turn my attention inward on acid, I feel like I'm going crazy. The only way I can describe it is that I'm "spiraling". I noticed that there are spirals all over this website, and I was wondering if there is a connection between spirals and the psychedelic experience?

 

of course!

i love reading your questions, there is something siccinct and unassuming about them, that disarms me

go with your inner feeling.. but I think it is dangerous to hold the belief that we are in any way omnipotent.. because it makes us lazy.

I think we should all apply our minds.. if you think you know everything.. then bring forth to the universe this all-knowing force..

a man gains nothing by knowing, only by being able to use or communicate that knowlege. the indulgence of sinking back is selfish of us. instead... access to this feeling should make us feel special.. special minds.. while turned on.
we can chose to keep this to ourselves or spread it
but when we try to spread it.. its so misunderstood.. and discouraging.
but then i start talking to someone about it while both on acid.. and no words mean anything anymore because it feels like we both know all of the things we could be thinking.

 

seems like if there's one thing i've learned from acid, it's that i can't claim to "know" anything. any knowledge depends on its own subjective reality, which is precisely what acid disrupts. things that are known truths while tripping may not be when sober, and vice versa. this is the reason you feel that, while tripping, everything you've learned is wrong- because you've escaped the subjective reality in which everything you know is right. you've got to realize, though, that you've only entered another subjective reality- things that are known while tripping may get lost on the way back down to sobriety, because they no longer hold meaning.

the real key, as far as i'm concerned, is applying your "knowledge" from one state of reality toward a different state. in other words, subvert your sober, waking reality without the use of drugs. (not necessarily inducing the altered state itself)

to summarize: more thinking, less knowing

 

Is what you've said true for you? We "know" that fire burns us. We don't need to think, "hey there's a fire over there, and if I go over there, I'm going to get burned if I go near it. Or, If I stay away, I'm not going to be burned because I am not going to be near the fire", in order to "know" to avoid fire. Pretty excessive, huh?

Nothing worth thinking about in such situation. And yet nothing that comes in your life is more than a situation. A problem is no more than a situation. I'm not saying know/understand the universe, or to know the unknown, how could you? Uncertainty is a burden to carry.

Describe your idea of a known truth? What truth is there other than what you hear and what you see all around you? Is that not happening, would you prefer it if it wasn't? What's around you will always be true. Thinking is resistance, thinking is usually due to misunderstanding. If you do not accept "what is", then you are resisting what is. What is? Well what is at this moment?

What is thinking going to do for you if you keep doing it? You either understand something, or you do not. Do you believe that the more you think about something the better you will understand it?

The terms "everything" and "learned" are a bit narrow here. As applied to what? Examples..

If I learned fire is hot, I won't forget that whilst tripping, as that's a factual truth.

If I came to be an antisocial person due to people laughing at my voice, and started to believe that I had a stupid voice.. acid might just give me the insight through that insecurity and realize that my fear was based on something ultimately not about who I am, and that I can not change my voice, therefore, the only way to live with myself and just experience life would be to just accept myself for who I am.

,,

And unless you know what is truth, what is truly positive, and negative, on some sort of cosmic worldly or universal scale, how could you assume what is ultimately wrong or right? Subjective reality needs an objective reality. When subject and object are one, then what?

Is that true in your case? There's nothing to know, nothing to think, nothing to understand. The present moment is all you ever really have, the only thing worth of concern. There's life, and there's the situations in your life. It's up to you to be mentally identified with them.

Anyway, I hope you get my point.

 

I dont think we know that fire burns.
I thought fire burns..
but last night whilst tripping, i played with fire, and realised that the flame does not accurately represent the heat source within. For example, the burn is directly relative to the conditions of the flame, and the fingers, how close to the flame they are put and how long.
what does anyone know? we know that fire burns, as much as we know that coals do. but we also know that coals and fire do not always burn

you cant compare thinking to knowing. they are not comparable. knowing is a type of self-perception where we put faith in a thought.

When we are comfortable with the possibilities in our mind to the point where one thought encompasses them, we call this knowlege

but on psychedelics, our mind unites further possibilities and weaves more thoughts into the encompassment
until all is encompassed
and this has the same feeling as knowlege
but just as the walls warp and breath, so too can the apparent structure of concepts.

 

Such wise people on this forum.

 

I agree with this definition of knowlege. Thought plus Faith equals Knowlege.

Knowlege is often very personal though, (as in the case of religious faith, in which the devout profess to 'know' about a divine entity), and including 'self-perception' in your definition is meaningful.

Enough flattery though, I'm curious to explore the next step, the step in which uncommon or unpopular thoughts or ideas become common and popular, and how that process works.

In the case of science & math, common beliefs and perceptions can change quickly, and this change comes about through experiments and proofs that are recognized by many people.

I'm curious about how other types of beliefs, or 'knowlege' evolve, though, on a large scale (surely it often starts with a few influential or charismatic people) such as political, religious, idealogical, moral, etc.

 

I think if you think of knowlege as an organism, it feeds some curiosity.
Imagine that knowlege has to survive just like creatures do. Knowlege reproduces when one person spreads knowlege to another person. However, this new knowlege will be different, and thus we implant diversity, like in genetic reproduction. When you bring these two concepts, the struggle to survive, and intrinsic diversity together, you result in evolution.
The beliefs that spread are the ones that propogate most easily (can be put into succinct meaning with the generally accepted meaning of words of the time and place), and the ones that override previous beliefs (includes the believable elements of previous belief but makes more believable some other aspects), and the ones that promote the spread of themselves (including in the belief the need to spread or assert this belief), and the ones that are generally least ambiguous (or most ambiguous and least interpretable) and thus will be spread homogenously amongst the believers (instead of seeming like too many sub-beliefs).

thats a start

 

^
Was just making an example out of fire and the fact that it can burn skin if touched, and how acid can remove certain fears from the user. Maybe we just all have different definitions of thinking, knowing, understanding, truth, etc. We know certain things, whether they are the truth or not, who knows? What's the point in arguing over a thing like that? What can be solved?

Yes, agreed, you put your faith into everything. You put faith in the language you were being tought, put faith into what others told you was right or wrong, etc., as also your attention was probably hooked on anything an adult would tell you until you could domesticate and learn by yourself. Faith was obviously required somewhere down the lines, though it seems like it could be just innocence and part ignorance until it hits a certain point.

& I'm not even attempting to make philosophical statements or argue on any complexities (with fire), as I wasn't even trying to bring such into the matter. I was trying to simply trying to convey certain types of knowledge using such as examples. Fire is, as fire is as far as I'm concerned. It seems to burn skin in my world.

 

i dont think you were just making that example, it appeared to me that you were suggesting 'thinking' was an excessive waste. and that when some answer is obvious, there is no thinking worth doing anymore.