What is "gay pride?"

Can anyone explain to me what "gay pride" is?

Please don't tell me "proud to be gay."

Because that isn't an explanation. That is a definition.

Explain to me how you can take pride in being gay.

Especially after considering there is nothing "different" about being a homosexual than there is about being a heterosexual, except the obvious.

 

Probably a spin-off from the civil-rights era of the late 60's when "Black Pride" was touted as a means of ralleying people to aprreciate themserlves for who they were.
Gay Pride was an answer to the years of socially sactioned repression and persecution of gay people. Since you don't want to be told it means proud to be gay I'm not sure what to tell you. Yeah, thats exactly what it meant back in the day. It was a recognition that we were something more than the object of hatred that society called us. It makes far less sense in the context of todays progress in being accepted.

How can you take pride in being gay...cause it was a way of defining yourself as more than the pariah that society had beat into our brains. View it from the mindset of institutionalized self loathing...gays were villified as the lowest form of perverted scum on Earth...Along comes a new concept...we're gay and we're OK...better than OK we're proud to be who we are...we're not hiding any more.

Currently it makes no more sense than having pride in blue eyes or copper-colored skin. Don't know if this makes sense to you or not...maybe someone else can shed more light on the topic.

 

I doubt it. That was a very eloquent and succinct explanation. And it is a distinction that likely is lost on anyone not of our generation.

1968 - Black Civil Rights movement really took off and after King was shot took it to the streets. That same summer was the Stonewall riots in NYC that took it to the streets and just as the blacks, said we're not gonna be abused any more. Black Power and Gay Power.

You had to have been there.

It is recorded in history, but I'm afraid still not taught to its fullest. We lived under a racist, homophobic society until the late '60s. Part of the Turn on, Tune in Drop out rebellions was for all this antiquated thinking of our parents' generation. And there were enuf of us baby boomer, a mass of young ppl to make a dent in that monolithic ancient culture.

Notice I haven't said overturn - it is still there but not quite as blatant as before. In the last couple of decades Gay Pride parades were always held in July to commemorate the Stonewall Riots, just as we still have a Black History month in January. Both are becoming passe - as they should as acceptance of all races and sexual orientations increases.

Boy, I sure rambled and didn't improve much on what Yarapario said.

 

Yeah man, But you ramble good...Had us a helluva time back then and still going strong...ain't it sweet.

 

You can't even begin to compare the two.

The Black Pride movement had nothing to do with getting people to appreciate themselves. It had everything to do with showing our government that we are equals and deserve "rights."

Only right that isn't afforded to homosexuals is marriage. Which is nothing because you can get married in Canada and have your marriage recognized in America.

If being gay is who you are, you shouldn't take pride in it.

That is like me saying I'm human so I take pride in it.

Taking pride for something you did not accomplish is nonsense.

 

It's more to say we live in a heterosexist culture but we will be ourselves regardlless, so it's not so much taking pride in being gay as it is in being gay or bi or lesbian or transgender or what have you in a culture that holds us inferior to the heterosexual cis gendered norm.

 

Well, Since you asked I told you where it came from. You don't like the explanation thats fine. Now let me back you off your righteous high horse a bit. If you weren't gay in the 50's and 60's you got no idea of the kind of hate directed at us. We learned from the civil rights movements that we could and should take a stand. We were an invisible minority, we walked among the people who hated us, reviled us and demeaned us. If we were discovered we were often beaten or killed, the perpatrators were seldom bothered by the law... often enough the law and the perps were one and the same. If we were discovered to be gay our jobs were forfeit. Our families disowned us. We had no where to go for support...but we weren't stupid. We saw Black people tire of oppression and fight back. When the cops stormed Stonewall to do their usual bullying Gay men fought back. It got the attention of a lot of people on both sides of the divide. Gay people began to realize they didn't have to take the same old crap that had gone on for years. There sure as hell was a lot of pride in that.

Black leaders in the 60's most certainly wanted people to appreciate who they were. The psychology of giving a person pride in themself is a basic step to empowerment...the government would only take notice of people who felt good enough about who they were to stand up and fight back.

Your statement about getting married in Canada and having it recognized here is absurd... It does not happen that way. Do some research before typing nonsense.

You wanna talk about equal rights, ask a gay high school kid if he has equal rights. Ask someone who wants to visit a loved one in intensive care and is turned down because they aren't "related". Ask the dedicated soldier who wants to serve his country only to be discharged because he is discovered to be gay. In a pigs ass we got rights.

The tone of your reply seems pretty dismisive. You asked a question in your first post ever on this forum. Two of us who went through those times gave you an honest assessment from our point of view. If you came here thinking you'd gay bash you're wasting time. We've been through that crap all our lives and we're puke fuckin' sick of it.

If you want an open honest discussion you can approach us with respect otherwise find another place to belittle people...it won't be tolerated here.

 

Again, Yarapario gives the argument that I wish I had done. (I was sleepin' you stay up all night?)

There has always been arguments that the gay rights movement is disimilar to the black rights - but I see them both as being the same (ref above arguments). In fact a few years ago the NAACP aligned with the gay rights movement in support. Dr. Martin Luther King was notorious for leaving the narrow focus of black civil rights and aligning with other movements, most notably against the war in Vietnam. No civil right is insular from the rest, they all travel the same road.

Here's a little something I like to do with ppl who argue against gay rights, claiming that it has nothing to do with black civil rights:

The Gay Pride movement had nothing to do with getting people to appreciate themselves. It had everything to do with showing our government that we are equals and deserve "rights."

Only right that isn't afforded to blacks is marriage. Which is nothing because you can get married in Canada and have your marriage recognized in America.
(I only left this foolish statement in because before 1967 blacks and whites could not marry in almost half the U.S. If you lived in Virginia and got married in DC, your marriage was not recognized in Virginia - hence the Lovings sued for that right and all the miscegenation laws were ruled unconstitutional in June '67. This history of appartheid in America is not being taught in schools so a lot of ppl don't know how similar black and gay civil rights are)

If being black is who you are, you shouldn't take pride in it.
That is like me saying I'm human so I take pride in it.
Taking pride for something you did not accomplish is nonsense.

 

I appreciate your explanation. It still made no sense to me, though. Logically speaking it couldn't make sense to anyone.

If I were here to bash homosexuals, you'd know about it. Or maybe you wouldn't because my posts and name would be deleted by now.

I personally feel pride is something you hold dear to yourself and it isn't changed by anything. Something that you've achieved.

I am a proud video gamer. I can take pride in being a great video gamer because that is a skill I've honed and gotten better at. "Gay Pride" "Black Pride" and any other "pride" of the sort if nonsense.

The one thing I don't understand about "gay pride," and probably never will, is where it comes from.

How can you take pride in something you didn't accomplish? I've heard a lot of homosexuals saying they have always been homosexual. If you've always been homosexual, what is there to be proud about?

I've talked to homosexuals about a "Heterosexual Pride Parade" and how it would make them feel.

I have yet to meet one that wouldn't have an issue with it.

They feel it's a slap in the face and very ridiculing.

I know gay highschool children have the same rights. Rights and preference are two completely different things. Gay students can do everything heterosexual students do. Just because they heterosexual students aren't comfortable with the homosexual student doesn't mean they don't have the same rights.

The hospital thing... I've seen homosexuals get in and see each other on several occasions. If they're not let in there, it has nothing to do with rights being violated. Because if it did, you could file a complaint and have that employee fired. Which shows you have the same rights as everyone else.

 

History only makes a valid argument if you're arguing history.

We're not talking about the past. We're talking about now.

"Rights" are given to you. Blacks have the right to vote. That right can be taken away.

Marriage isn't a right. Homosexuals can get married.

Having it recognized by the government shouldn't be important if the love is the reason you got married.

If I married a woman because I love her, I wouldn't care if I couldn't write her off on my taxes.

As long as I have that piece of paper signifying that I made that commitment to her because of the love, I couldn't care less who recognized it.

Because at the end of the day "I" love her, so what everyone else thinks doesn't change the love.

 

I guess I'll be your first then!

Honestly, I don't see that heteropride would be any more ridiculous than gay pride. I'd rather all these cunts who insist that the PC brigade would descend upon them if they had a Straight White Male Pride rally would just have one, so they can see a) that they're wrong, and b) how boring marching actually is.

As for the definition of gay pride, it depends. There is Gay Pride - the whole marching thing with the feathers - and then there is pride in your sexuality, and then there is the absence of shame in your sexuality. The three can intersect, but they're by no means the same thing.

To clarify that, one can be unashamed of one's sexuality without being "proud" exactly. None of that is dependent on attending marches or what you'd probably consider "making a fuss".

But to relate this to your "pride" as a video gamer, I'd advise you to consider how you'd feel if you'd been made to feel ashamed to be a video gamer, regardless of whether you were any good at it. You could be the best video gamer in the world, but no-one would give a shit, because you were still a video gamer.

Crap analogy, but honestly, you should be able to see the point. You say "If you've always been homosexual, what's to be proud of?" I'd say If you've always been homosexual, what's to be ashamed of?"

I don't think I'll ever persuade you that homosexuals are discriminated against. Not really. You know about laws and laws being changed, and the rest you can chalk down to the prejudices of individuals, which no-one can do anything about, right? Well that's where pride movements, gay visibility etc. come into play. Hearts and minds, isn't it? In your example, yes, we have the right to complain if we're prevented from visiting a boyfriend in hospital, and obviously we should be totally happy with that, because why wouldn't we? It's a pretty common angle from those who don't experience prejudice. Just knowing you're in the right doesn't help - most of us know that before laws are changed - if no-one's sticking up for you; if the employee in question will almost definitely get off scot free; if people are even hinting that maybe you're taking this whole equality thing a tiny bit too far.

Do you see my point?

 

That's as maybe, but heterosexual marriage DOES offer legal perks. If you expect homosexuals to stop whining and be grateful for what society has deigned to give them, maybe you heteros should be giving up those rights to save on paperwork?

Didn't think so.

 

Main Entry:
proud
Pronunciation:
\ˈprau̇d\
Function:
adjective

1: feeling or showing pride: as a: having or displaying excessive self-esteem b: much pleased : exultant c: having proper self-respect

2 a: marked by stateliness : magnificent b: giving reason for pride : glorious <the proudest moment in her life>

3: vigorous, spirited


Pride is a lofty view of one's self or one's own. Pride often manifests itself as a high opinion of one's nation (national pride), ethnicity (ethnic pride), or appearance and abilities (vanity). Pride is considered a negative attribute by most major world religions, but some philosophies consider it positive. The opposite of pride is humility.


Pride exists without accomplishments. The definition of the word (especially 1a and 1c) should be the end of this thread.

 

Basically, by demanding an explanation independent of the definition, the guy seems to be implying that gay pride is unjustifiable.

To sum up what I rambled about earlier, heterosexuals have a lot more type-1c "pride" ("proper self-esteem") than homosexuals. In relative terms, we could say they have type-1a "pride" ("excessive self-esteem"), because they have more than us.

We don't have equality. Even if it's set in legal stone, I'd anticipate that it'll take a good generation, probably two, before societally ingrained inequality (heteronormativity, e.g.) has been "bred out".

Pride and humility are like blame and responsibility. Maybe we would all benefit from a bit of Straight Humility.

 

I was going to point out the fallacy in your interpretation of my post with which you took issue, but instead I will address the opening line in your response to Yarapario's post in which you profess not to understand any of his well articulated arguments.


This pretty much sums it up.

You are obtuse and there is no use trying to 'splain stuff to you.

 

This is the funniest part, I'm surprised no-one commented on it. It speak volumes.

 

For the original poster to claim to claim gay student have equal rights shows a level of insurmountable ignorance...any number of schools have banned or blocked the formation of Gay/Straight Alliances. Any number of schools have forbidden the formation of any kind of gay support or gay positive clubs...not to mention the reality of gay kids getting beaten or murdered in their schools simply for being gay. While there maybe defacto rights for all kids in schools the reality is still far from that in many of the nations schools especially in the backwaters and bible belt areas.

I also invite the original poster to do a bit of research into the number of cases where gay partners have been denied visitation, with impunity on the part of the hospitals. Any number of lawsuits have been filed to address this injustice and only recently has there been any headway.

As for you statement that I would know if you were gay bashing you are correct in thinking you'll be banned. You cross the line and I'll ban you in a second. As far as deleting your posts however, they can stand. They serve as an excellent example of the type ignorance and intolerance that makes our lives pointlessly difficult.

On a final note; an attempt to hold a straight pride parade was made just this past week-end...nobody showed! Check out some of the gay blog sites, Towleroad or Good As You for details.

 

This, I think, is the point. Even if gay people weren't regularly denied visitation, the fact that they could be is the problem. I think a lot of heteros don't see the difference between a widely-available privilege and a right.

I don't think he cares. That remark really did make his motives apparent. He wants us to regard him as a victim of oppression, on account of how we, the PC brigade, are totally oppressing his human right to trashtalk minorities. Oh, the savage hypocrisy that this forum represents! Never mind the fact that no-one would actually have insta-perma-banned him in an instant (unless things have changed; I'm pretty sure we used to let generic "homosexuality is lame" type threads run for a good few pages before we 86'd them, rather than keep nipping them in the bud and have to deal with a new one every couple of hours!), because he's already told us that we would, and that he's being forced to modify his behaviour accordingly... although obviously he's not homophobic either; he just wants us to know that, if he was, we wouldn't allow it, because we're uppity up-ourselves gay pridesters.


Good to know someone did finally do a straight pride rally. I'd have been happy for it to be packed too. Why shouldn't straight people be proud? Sure, they've got a few bad apples in their history bag, but so have we - the guy who invented the computer was gay, and look how that turned out!

It's fairly obvious though that the only reason the subject is ever broached is so malcontents can make us/blacks/"society" look like the bad guys for their lack of balls.

 

Dude, homosexuals haven't accomplished anything!? Seriously?

Ask the gay teenager, who was raised by strictly Catholic, homophobic parents, whether or not it's an accomplishment to come out of the closet and not be afraid to let others know who they are. Ask a lesbian whether or not she accomplished anything by being the first one to step up and form a Gay Straight Alliance at her school, so that other closeted students would have the ability to feel more comfortable. Ask the friends of homosexuals if they have ever accomplished anything by not being afraid to show other people who are filled with hate that they don't care if their friend is gay or not. Really, what do you think accomplishment is? Playing video games? To you, maybe. To some, it's a lot more than a fantasy world filled with graphics and surrealism.

What about people who are proud to be Americans? Is their pride "stupid", "unnecessary" or "illogical" because they personally probably never accomplished anything as an American? Or would you have had to fought in the Revolutionary War to justifiably have pride in this country?

And there are millions of ways you could compare the Civil Rights Movement to the Gay Pride Movement. I don't think anyone with half a brain would say they are the same thing, but there are a lot of similarities. Even after both minorities have been "legally granted equal rights" (my ass), they are still discriminated against constantly, and not always supported by law or by generally law-abiding citizens. Fred Phelps still protests the funerals of soldiers, holding up signs that say "GOD KILLED YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE FIGHTING FOR FAGS!" or making his young children hold up signs saying "GOD HATES FAGGOTS!". Black men are still statistically less likely to get jobs when compared to white men. The main difference is that you can tell by looking at someone (generally) whether or not they are black. You can't tell by looking at someone whether or not they are gay, so when a homosexual decides to come out of the closet and be proud of who they really are, it's an accomplishment.

Whether or not you think those accomplishments matter enough to constitute Gay Pride in and of itself is your own damn problem, but your arguments are terribly flawed.

 

Excuse me? The Black Pride movement did in fact involve getting people to appreciate themselves as black people.

And as for your original post, you said theres nothing different between being straight and gay apart from the obvious - I beg to differ. There is a hell of a lot of difference.

And Yarapario, Shale and everyone else - I think you're handling this really well This guy is a total fool to say the least. I find it highly amusing he takes pride in being a "video gamer".