Independents and Third Party Members

Tell me why you're voting for Nader, Barr, McKinney, or Baldwin.

I, like many, I'm sure, was caught up in the historicalness of this election. Not only did the inherit historical value of this election weigh on my mind, but the fact that this is my OWN personal history I'm making. I am a first time voter. I've come up through my developmental years in the Bush administration. And now I'm at the point where I'm on the edge of beginning my working life as Bush is on the out. So I think I can understand the importance of the election.

Except...

That I am 100% discouraged. For a year and a half I was caught up in Obama fervor. I believed in Obama, and still, just a teensy-bit, do. But as I've followed this historical election from BEFORE there were any officially declared candidates, I have become disheartened with Obama.

I find it incredulously hilarious how in the time of just one weekend (prior to the RNC) did the John McCain Campaign become the Barack Obama Campaign, and vice versa.

You watch town hall meetings and stump speeches now and if you've been following the race at all, and if you're like me, you have to be scratching your head. Where once Obama was gathering 1000s and garnering cheers and applause and John McCain mustered old-looking crowds of quiet, conservative-faced voters, that has all completely changed.

Now McCain is drawing the excited crowds and rousing the nation. Obama is mumbling through talking points in front of crowds that are straining to keep the Obama-mentum going. Of course, this is all directly attributed to Sarah Palin, but that doesn't really matter and is not the issue.

I don't feel disdain or hard feelings because all of a sudden "we're losing." I feel disenfranchised because, quite frankly, I am completely and utterly unimpressed.

But not only am I unimpressed, I feel stupid. I feel dumb for ever thinking anything would change, that anything would be different. As soon as the Republicans switched over to the Change-Campaign did I realize, "The Republicans are stealing the Democrats suit because the Democrats are wearing the Republican suit."

Basically, I am an Obama supporter who has realized his support, and especially his enthusiasm, was all, if anything, ceremonial.

I have broken it down thusly: If I vote for Obama as I would prior to this discouragement, all that I could really say, is that I voted for that guy and he won. But what if he doesn't do anything that he says he wants to do. Then I voted for that guy who didn't do anything he said he was going to do? So basically: I can feel really good, or I can feel really bad.

But if I don't vote for Obama, then all I really can say is: I didn't vote for Obama. I don't have to feel guilty if he screws up, and I have nothing to really feel bad about if he does genuinely what he says he wants to. I'm just one guy, if my one vote doesn't make it into Obama's pool, I'm sure I won't be the one vote that make him lose to McCain.

But damnit, I must emphasize that I want to vote. To all of you, almost extremist, "voting is a sham" people, well, good for you. But whether it's moot or not, I still want to believe that there is some shred of what is truly American left in voting. And I would believe that so much more passionately than I do right now if there wasn't a 2-party system. I feel like the third-parties are more than just symbols, and I feel like they're more than just wasted-votes. I feel like it's a direct attribution to Americans really trying to "change" the system.

So to all of you who are indepent or are of a third-party, I would like to know who you are voting for, and why. And I only want to know why you're voting for that person. I don't want to know why you're NOT voting for this other person.

Enlighten me.

-horace

 

Mmm, I can't vote in the USA election. But if I could, I would probably vote Nader at this point because his point of views and policies align most with mine, to give you the short stick answer.

 

well, at least somebody gave an answer.

 

i'm far closer to nader than any of the other candidates on the issues, but i've voted for him in the past and ended up with bush/cheney. the prospect of ending up with mccain/palin is giving me pause.

 

yeah. as much as i've been discouraged by "my" democratic (corporate) party, i just don't think i can stand 4 more years of republican administration.

i just really can't live 4 more years with "(R)" plastered on the whitehouse.

i kinda feel like voting for obama simply because of things like the environment and education.

except that i don't feel much would come of those 2 things really, at all. it's all just a facade.

which is basically why i don't know what to do anymore.

 

well, one thing i'm thinking is we DO have some good democratic leaders in congress, and a democratic president will only help them to gain more control over the direction the country takes. also there's the supreme court judge appointments to think about. we don't need more conservative judges appointed, that's for sure. i'm very disappointed that obama supports the war and nuclear power, but the overall affect of having a democratic executive branch would be an improvement over 4 (or 8) more years of republican 'leadership'.

 

hmm, i must not know as much about nuclear power as i'd like to think. perhaps someone, someday, will school me on it, but as of this moment right now, i'm pretty much for nuclear power.

but that aside (not trying to make this thread about one issue) i agree with you. i had slightly forgotten about supreme court judges.

also, i just feel 100% that obama is/would be a better statesman/diplomat than john mccain.

 

i agree absolutely. no contest.

 

yeah, but that's also where i reduce it to "who's the best mascot for america?"

which really makes it seem like a sham.

oh wells. it makes some slight sort of sense.

 

as opposed to none. :tongue:

 

opposed to no sense or no mascot?

sorry, i've been drinking alone...

 

yeah, it makes some slight sort of sense to vote for the democratic candidate as opposed to making no sense to vote for the republican candidate.

 

yes, that does make sense.

 

It is a sham. It has been for a while now.

You obviously already realize this, but the more you research the status quo candidates, the more you realize they are EXACTLY THE SAME.

I refuse to choose between the lesser of two evils. I will not settle for status quo. I will not settle for any candidate that does not fall in line with my principles.

There is a reason Obama and McCain are the only two choices.... There is a reason men like Mike Gravel... Ron Paul.... Dennis Kucinich were pushed out so early in the process... the pro- establishment, status quo government doesn't want us to know about these men.
The media completely ignored these good men for a reason- the same men that control the media control the government- and these men don't want America to know about these men.

Think about it. Why are McCain and Obama the only choices left? It has far more to do with the puppeteers and a lot less to do with our votes.

These two men talk and act like they couldn't be further apart... yet... under more careful observation.. they both stand for bigger government... a continuation of nation building in the Middle East... for a larger Executive Branch...for more of the same... they both want more for them and less for us. They are both puppets controlled by the same small group of men.

 

what about if mccain is elected and we have four more years of exactly what we had with bush? what if in four to eight years, the supreme court is completely conservative and begins turning back the clock in this country? women lose the right to choose, the little guy loses the right to fight the corporate conglomerate in court, the average american loses the right to protest, the christian right takes over the schools, people of color could even lose their rights in this country. i understand the disappointment that our democratic choice isn't more different than our republican choice, but there is still a difference. we have made alot of progress in this society that we don't want to lose.

 

"what about if mccain is elected and we have four more years of exactly what we had with bush? what if in four to eight years, the supreme court is completely conservative and begins turning back the clock in this country? women lose the right to choose, the little guy loses the right to fight the corporate conglomerate in court, the average american loses the right to protest, the christian right takes over the schools, people of color could even lose their rights in this country. i understand the disappointment that our democratic choice isn't more different than our republican choice, but there is still a difference. we have made alot of progress in this society that we don't want to lose."

You are extremely out of touch with current politics.

If you can irrefutably show me proof that either candidate isn't controlled by the same men, than you may have something. McCain and Obama's puppet strings are pulled by the same men... Each candidate presents a different side of a disaster waiting to happen.

I will finish this post with this.

What you said- are all (mostly) rights that are to be upheld by our Constitution. The Constitution begins with

" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

You need to understand that the unalienable rights that this document lists are not given or taken from you by the US Government. They are yours as they are given to you by your God... whoever that may be... they are to be protected and upheld by your government- which is to be elected by and for the citizens.

Government does not give or take rights from you. They are yours and they are unalienable. You are bound to defend them, if they are threatened.

I just wanted to say that, as you are so concerned with your rights.

The Congress is Democrat majority- you know.... since you are very left leaning, that will probably be good for you... although Congress doesn't do a hell of a whole lot...


"the little guy loses the right to fight the corporate conglomerate in court, the average american loses the right to protest"

And you think Obama won't do the exact same thing?!?!

You really are out of touch.

Some people just have a lot of trouble understanding the fact that Obama and McCain are both poked by the same men....

 

I am of no party affiliation.

I will be voting for McCain.

We're not going to get exactly what we got with Bush unless the Democratic Congress makes it that way. People don't understand that the President's power is not autonomous. Congress is responsible for most of what we have suffered not Bush.

 

instead of loosing your acid tongue on me, why don't you suggest a way to change the situation for the better? i voted for a third party candidate and i got bush. and despite what you say, even though there was alot about clinton i didn't like, his 8 years were alot less painful than bush's have been. voting for 3rd party candidates doesn't work because not enough people do. not voting doesn't work. not enough people protest to make a difference. so, what's your idea?

 

i determined today that i either have to vote economically or socially.

the whole reason why i was behind the democrats in the first place is because of social issues.

i'm not entirely comfortable with obama's economic policy.

to balance out both sides, i don't agree with mccain socially, and i just flat out don't trust republicans.

i trust the kind of "republican" that ron paul is economically, but i don't feel that that is, sad to day, pragmatic in this day in age.

but only because of executive corruption, and the sad future this country is taking.

i'm not saying dr. paul's ideas wouldn't work, i'm just saying the american people wouldn't allow them too, neither would the real powers at be, the banks.

i identify very much with the progressive ideal, but i also agree with small federal government and giving power back to the states.

i am a jumble-fuck of ideals. there is no candidate for me. but i want to vote.

arg.

 

I will be voting for Nader, I know he has absolutely no chance of winning, but that is not the point. To me he is the most sincere and the most qualified candidate. I truely do not want Mccain to be president but there is no way in hell I am voting for Obama.